I don’t know the frequency of failure, but in combat, its always nice to have some backup. The instruments can always supplement the MFDs while the latter perform some other (SA related) function.

In a combat under live and death, if you are looking for a backup in case the first one fail, it’s too late and you are going to be shot down. There is no chance for you to have second chance using the backup. Instead, you need a fail prove system, a system that incorporate internally some procedures to prevent failure. A system that the pilot has all his confidence and rely on it, a system that gives the first shot capability.

In the case of Su-30 MKI cockpit, if those analogs are backup as you claimed, then the MFDS are really sucks, they fail all the times. Otherwise you don’t need those back up all over the cockpit.

However, I don’t agree with your theory. I think those analogs have their own functions and work load. The MFDs showing are not optimized yet, they can display or control only part of missions and modes, or possibly each of the MFDs only has a single mode. They are not up to the standard of what we called “Smart/multifunctional display”.(at least not fully complete)

Whatever mode/missions lacking in the MFDs, they use the analog switch or display to accomplish the test, which intern need more key strokes mean slower in reaction time and less user friendly.

Here is the JAS39 and F-16 Block 60 cockpit.

:diablo: !! Great!! 😀

Are u sure?? I mean please…., be scared!!

Try enlarging the image and you may lose your pants.

I has already enlarged it way before your request. You may be disppointed, my pants is still here.

All i saw is, there are 3 small MFDs and full of analog switches. The control stick is blocking part of 1 MFD display and a few analog displays. It does not look very modern to me.
So, you also agree this is Su-30 MKI’s cockpit?

I took a look at LCA and JF-17’s cockpit and mki’s cockpit. Make your own judgement which one is more advanced.
MKI
http://spacetrans.tripod.com/thumbs/su30mkicockpit1_t.jpg
http://spacetrans.tripod.com/pix/su30mkicockpit2.jpg

Are you sure these are SU-30 MKI cockpits?
I was reading so much about how advanced it is, but this cockpit you are showing does not impress me at all.

China is ahead of Japan for sure and it is around USD $60 billions.

China official release is 30+ billions, there are suspious but no one has evidence. You may want to say China is lying, but can you guarantee India’s figure has no scandal?

Money means you can recruit more people from abroad and pay more scientist from Israel and Russia to put the J-10 faster in the sky that is the answer

The problems is spending on LCA is more than J-10, parties involve of LCA are not limited to Russian and Israel, there are also American, French, Swiss etc.

i do not believe your figures because the Israelies and Russians want lots of money for selling their military stuff.

Ironically, Israelies and Russians are the largest weapon sellers for India, so this is perfectly apply to India.

Flagger,
Here is my two cents, India’s aviation industry is behind China for sure. The reason is not monetary.
in the 60’s and 70’s, China and India are in the same situation. China economy is even worst than India. At that time, they both operate Soviet’s fighters. They both got license to build Mig-21(China first got it with Mig-19 and later Mig-21)

But Chinese worked hard and kept learning to build the aircrafts, they took apart each aircraft type, learnt how it work, how the subsystem works, found the shortages, and tried to improve it.
They knew J-6(Mig-19) is not a good ground attack, so based on this they built Q-5, with a lot of modifications. TheY knew J-7(Mig-21) is not good enough to kill EWAC, so based on this they build J-8. Based on decades of experience, they built JH-7. But they still lag on engines, so they need foreign help on this area. J-10 and FC-1 are also built with many years of hard work and experience. However, they still lag behind the western by decades, they need foreign help to speed up the catch up and projects.

India in contrary, they did not care about the aviation industry(only recently), they used lazy doctrine. Everytime they need weapons, they just purchased from the foreigns. They also got license to build Mig-21, but they never cared to learn how to build the aircraft. After they reach the end of license, they just shut down to assembly line. They never try to improve it nor try to upgrade on their own. I doubt any Indian at that time take the aircraft apart and learnt from it.
They don’t have experience, management, assembly line, special tooling, good skill labors, etc.. etc..
Since their internal aviation industry is weak, everytime they need some kind of subsystems, they have to order from foreign. (They may try to build on their own, since the industry is just started, it only worsen the already delayed project)
I am no surprise that LCA keep delaying.

In summary, China has will, guts, determination to achieve what they want (hard work and keep learning), but India is not. MONETARY JUST PLAY A TINY ROLE HERE.

you are wrong India`s first nuclear weapon was in May 18th 1974, just 10 years after China`s.

Thanks, I should correct my memory.

you are totally wrong China fought a border war with Russia and lost it, a border war with India and won, a border war with Vietnam and lost, annexed Tibet and has threated Taiwan besides has several territorial disputes with japan and the Philipinnes.

China has many territorial disputes.

Wrong what? Did we say anything about border disputes?
We are in coversation about the arm race, now you are talking about somthing else.
Besides, China has already settled most (if not all) the border disputes, only Inda does not want to settle.

China and India have kept a very militarized border and have a common border a strong defence for India is of capital importance because China has nukes and has fought several little short border wars.

Only Indians imagine that way, China don’t even employ their bests in the west. They only put the second lines like J-6s, Q-5s, and and J-7s there.

The LCA is a response to the Chinese military re-armament and other regional threats.

Doesn’t seem working well, IAF reluctant to use it.

technologically and militarily the Indians know the J-10 represents a great leap forward in Chinese aviation therefore it is needed a domestic respose to a potentian rival.

Knowing does not meant you can do it.

you forget China and India have fought a war in the 1960s and both nations got nukes around the same time.

How can it be? A recall from my memory, China tested its first nuclear bomb in the early 60’s. India tested its first in the late 80’s, more than two decades apart.

There is an arms race between China and India, in fact they arming themselves with similar weapons.

Only in you imaginary. China is aiming far east, to Taiwan and Japan, and American’s carrier fleet. They rarely memtioned India.

In this arms race China is ahead in the J-10 and J-11 programs.

But India has answered that with the Su-30MKI and MCA.

Agree with MKI.
A paper project MCA? Man, you are really kidding me!!!

Thanks for the info Pinko,
Looks like China is going to be very explosive in this engine making business. The “catch up” is very rapid and remarkable.
Another area rapidly advancing is avionic, look at the FC-1 cockpit, those large MFDs are awesome.

Well I did post this, the individual being Dave Sutter.

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/Fe…rivateMiGs.html

The MiG-15/17 can be considered for most intents one type. There are currently four basic varients available as follows: MiG-15 either Chinese or Polish manufactured. (single seat fighters). MiG-15UTI trainers, mainly Polish. MiG-17F either Chinese or Polish once again, and the JJ-5 trainer, a 2 seat MiG-17 manufactured only in China. Basic differences between the 15 and 17 are the wing, 10 degrees greater in sweep, much thinner and with a higher critical mach number in the 17 compared to the 15. The 17 fighter has an afterburning VK-1F engine with all of the others, including the JJ-7 MiG-17 trainer having the less powerfull VK-1 sans burner. All of these engines are really reverse engineered Rolls Royce Nene engines, the Brits having had the good grace to sell the Soviets engines at the beginning of the cold war. Having had experience with all 4 of these I observe that the nicest airplanes are the ones from China (!!). Don’t ask me why, but their stuff is of much better fit and finish than the European stuff. I know it is weard and does not fit in with most peoples pre-conceived ideas but it is true. (and my own personal MiG is a Polish Lim-5 which a MiG-17F fighter, so I have no axe to grind).

Yes, you did. But, one and the only one individual pilot rating is not going to represent the whole line of export.

It will not convince anyone.