Are the outer wing pylons able to carry the Meteor? Or anything else heavier than the MICA for that matter.
The above load with 4 Meteors might be useful with a possible ARM Meteor.
Fuel fraction is not about how far you can fly on a given amount of fuel.
It’s the percentage of fuel weight compared to total weight. I.e. Su-35: 11500kg fuel, 17000kg empty (?), 28500kg t/o weight –> fuel fraction 0.4. Which is a lot, most fighters are usually around 0.3
But you’re probably right regarding the T-50 design. Being smaller and lighter, it requires less fuel to achieve the same range.
There is no such thing as an F-15C with -229 engines. Only Strike Eagles.
Do you have some data for the Su-35S?
Thanks for the link, as it turns out, manual is also available at http://publicintelligence.net ^^
Note the data is for 404-GE-400 engines. Newer -402 equipped Hornets have much more thrust.
Are you sure the F-16/F-35 comparison is with a clean F-16? Considering the reportedly poor transsonic acceleration figures, 8 seconds more than a clean Viper would still be pretty good.
The numbers that you´ve asked, (an F-15C with four AIM-7, four AIM-9P and a central external tank) are on page A9-16, more specificaly “Figure A9-12”.
The exact numbers for the three Dave versions are not public we only know that the KPP´s were designed around the F-16 and the F/A-18A/C (clean), we also know that Dave A failed the KPP´s (Mach 0.8 to 1.2 at 30K) by eight seconds, the B failed by 17 seconds and the C for whooping 43 seconds. Now if we pick the F-18A/C numbers (public) and add these “failed seconds” above and compare with the charts on that manual… You can figure it out by yourself. If we pick the Viper numbers then its a more rosy scenario.
Figure A9-12 is for an F-15 with 4+4 missiles, but centerline pylon only, and at 102% engine trim. ~68 sec from 0.8 to 1.2 Mach, but at 40k feet.
Figure A9-14 is for an F-15 with 4+4 missiles and centerline fuel tank, 102% engine trim. ~90 sec from 0.8 to 1.2 Mach, at 40k feet.
Figure A9-21 is for an F-15 with 4+4 missiles and centerline fuel tank, 97.7% engine trim. ~95 sec from 0.8 to 1.2 Mach, at 40k feet.
The engine used is the F100-PW-100 though, I imagine the -220 engine provides faster acceleration. And at 46k pounds, probably full internal fuel.
For the F-16C-52 with -229 engine (flight manual available here, I can’t guarantee my calc is correct though):
Weight with 6 missiles, full internal fuel and empty centerline fuel tank ~30k lbs
Drag index 69
At drag index 50 and 40k feet, numbers are (Figure A8-13):
92 sec at 28k lbs, 118 sec at 32k lbs from 0.82 to 1.24 Mach, or around 105 sec at 30k lbs.
At drag index 100, 30k lbs and 40k feet:
151 sec from 0.82 to 1.24 Mach.
At drag index 69, that is around 120sec I guess.
What are the numbers for the F-18?
Anyhow, 8 seconds below KPP for the F-35 is not much. More depends on which F-16 model they used as benchmark. As you can see, a 4k lbs weight increase means acceleration goes up by 26 sec. And the F-16-52 is quite heavy, 20200lbs according to the manual. A block 30 jet or even a standard USAF block 50 model should do better.
from my (somewhat tired after new years eve…) memory the F-15 was denied to export except a few particular cases… japan for being pretty much alone on the frontline facing China, Israel for its particular status (and strong lobbies) with the US, and Saudi Arabia for facing Iran or something along these lines..
basically, that’s one “theory” I’ve read.. another one was simply that it was just too costly to be considered by anyone except a few who, either benefited from US help (Israel and Japan) or had the bucks to afford it (Saudi Arabia), but it was proposed elsewhere, like in France (as shows this pic, of the F-15 in French colors:
, where Dassault produced a local version of a heavy fighter (Mirage 4000) which, inb the end, proved to be too costly for them as well and lead to a smaller version which is the Mirage 2000
The F-15 was offered to quite a few countries. In 1974 and 1976 (in famous bicentennial colours), F-15B 71-0291 as seen in your pic, went on sales tour around the globe. Note the flags on the fuselage: Iran, UK, Denmark, Norway, Israel, Korea, Canada, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Australia, France, Japan. Better seen here. There were probably others, the F-15 was demonstrated to the Italians f.e.
Transonic regime differ greatly from design to design, pending on wing sweep, aspect ratio, twist, thickness to cord ratio, and area
all of these favor deltas
F-16 have a wingsweep of 40*
F-22 42*
Rafale 48*
YF-22 48*
Typhoon 53*
Mirage 2000 58*
Su-27 42*
MiG-29 40*
F-35 is 33*
Gripen is 43*
F-15 is 45*As we can see, all fighters has a wingsweep of 40* or more…but wait, there is an abomination,
we find that one has a wingsweep closer to 30, 33 to be precise.
Much like its predecessor F-117, it has the designation F, but it is not a fighter,
it is an evolutionary subsonic bomber but with much better self defense aid, even able to go supersonic if given enough time.
What about nose to wingtip angle? I’ve made a little drawing comparing some modern fighters, and the Starfighter just for fun. As you can see, they are all around 60 something degrees, even the F-18 and F-35, well the F-104 is a little bit more extreme. Pitot tubes, missile rails and tip tanks have been ignored.
Notice I said dimensions and thrust class. The point was the Rafale and Typhoon were very similar in dimensions and both are in the similar thrust class, Typhoon being roughly equal and Rafale being less.Don’t worry, i’m not playing on the technicalities…you should also check on the dimensions and thrust class, and weight (just to keep this up) for the F22 as compared to others of its supposedly contemporary. Notice something? To me this reflects different design philosophy and requirements, of which I believe and others can disagree. Another case in point, some Rafale proponents point to how much heavier the supposedly similarly-roled and sized Typhoonwhich was reasoned, at least claimed, to must be due to inferior design. One should ask the reverse, assuming their designers are equally competent…what is the Rafale missing in the trade-offs? If the dimensional limits of the LHDs were to be an issue engineering-wise per the specifications during the design phase, nothing stops the A and C version to be longer without changing much of the center section. In fact the C had a much bigger wing and heavier, but no length increases? Why couldn’t the A, being the most numerous, also warrant some simple changes in features that’s not known to increase cost of manufacturing, like a lengthened nose section? Could it be that the specifications were met at the design phase? By the way, the Rafale isn’t exactly slim either. The devil in the aircraft design is in the details, general observations will only get you so far.
Yes Rafale and Typhoon are similar but they are not fat, thats my point. The F-22 is very heavy aswell, but at least it isn’t fat. Obviously this reflects different philosophy namely to carry everything internally. That was fine until LM stated the F-35 would not be as quick as hoped and required.
And yes, it would have been better imho if the A and B versions used a different airframe. But then the whole idea of jointness goes out of the window. LM had to reduce the number of identical parts already. I’m no engineer, but if you increase the length, you have to reduce the width or weight will increase, no? And that’s a no-go as the A and esp. the C are not underweight.
Genuine enquiry this (because I don’t know the answer): disregarding price and operating cost in what ways is Gripen superior to SH and Rafale?
Quick turn-around time, the ability to operate from austere bases. Lower fuel consumption not only means lower cost but also more missions for the same fuel. My guess is the Gripen has the highest sortie generation rate among those 3 and possibly any other current fighter, given the same resources. Thats why the claim from the competion that the heavies are able to do the same missions with fewer jets is worthless imho. Maybe true for the first mission, but what about the next? Or for a couple of weeks?
In A/A combat, the smaller size makes it harder to detect, both with the mk1 eyeball and IR sensors and possibly smaller RCS.
Thanks to the enlarged internal fuel capacity and larger drop tanks, range in light ie A/A configuration should be pretty good.
REALLY? Go check the dimensions and thrust-class of all three versions of the F35 and your so call equivalent fighters that some are championing as better of the same class…they all must be pretty bad too.
By weight, the F-15 is comparable to the F-35.
Length: 19.43m vs 15.67m
Span: 13.05m vs 10.7m
By length/span, Rafale and Typhoon are close.
But they are 9600kg and 11000kg respectively, F-35A is 13300kg.
As you can see, the F-35 tries to fit too much weight and volume into a too small box. Hence its chubby looks. No problem if the F-35A would have kept its promise of delivering F-16 like performance, but a promise LM could not keep since they had to adjust the performance figures.
The facts are the following: the only actual data that has been presented in this thread shows the F-35 to have fairly strong acceleration performance. You don’t like the facts, but that obviously does nothing to change them.
Yes, but only subsonic. Not really of much interest. Something like Mach 0.8 to 1.2 or 1.5 would be. And we all know about the fuss regarding transsonic acceleration…
Also there aren’t really many facts. F-16C, yes, but which Block? 42 or 52? What exactly does Tactical Mnvr Wt mean? F-16 configuration besides tanks?
No more wing tip tanks on the new wings?
I like the L-159, it’s pretty loud for such a small jet. I wish Austria would get some to replace the old Saab 105 fleet.
The original Typhoon looks like it would be possible to hang fast pack style cft’s from the conformal missile locations. Harness extenders would allow some retention of missile carrying. Plumbing and fuel shifting still has to be conquered, but it’s a natural location for holding the weight and keeping integration simple.
You probably don’t want non jettisonable fuel tanks located at the bottom of the aircraft. The installation on top of the fuselage is also much simpler as it doesn’t block weapon stations and access panels. And its already paid for.
I noticed that on the Lincoln when they launched F-14Ds most of the time they had so much power that they didnt even use afterburner on take off. That and the statement by some on the ship that D model 14s could super cruise made sense. That of course would seem to depend on how much junk that had hanging from the wings.
It was more a safety issue the Tomcat B and D launched without afterburners. Should one engine quit during take-off, the Tomcat couldn’t compensate for asymmetrical thrust. The increase in dry thrust was enough to launch without burners, so they did. If you think about it, the B/D had less dry thrust than the A had in burners, and the newer models were heavier meaning take-off performance dry B/D model versus wet A model is worse.
Re supercruise, my guess is the B was the fastest. Compared to the D, its lighter and less draggy due to the added IRST sensor.
The F22 didn’t suffer from politics or funding issues and did take 15 (not 18) years from first flight of the YF22 in 1990 to IOC of the F22 in 2005.
Bold statement. You might want to check some of djcross’ postings regarding this subject.