Why is it embarassing if the first test fail??It happens all the time in other countries.
You easily forget that India and pakistan have agreement to inform each other for any missile test.There is no info in any media if either country has broken that agreement.

Your wrong there is no agreement for cruise missiles, pakistan had proposed it but india thinking only they have them said no, so you can imagine the kind of shock they had when the missile was publically launched.

Even for argument sake pakistan did test the missile before this PR stunt their is enough technology with India,Russia and west to know of this test. You just cannot test a 500 miles missile and get away with it .Its equally applicable to India also.

So now tell me how many countries have tested the missile for the first time and declared it inducted in the same breath.

For the good of the forum stop thinking people are trying to undermine pakistan. Facts are facts.

Facts what facts, just because foreign agencies and indian spie agencies were unable to detect the development of the missile makes it automatically mean that the missile was bought off the shelf from China?, what kind of reasoning is that, we all know how well foreign agencies are these days with their intelligence.

By no-where; I mean phrase to justify de-centralised use of resources doesnt leads to 700 km LRCM within such short time span with 1 test.

Where is nowhere, how are you basing your assumptions, on what basis?, from what events in history? and 10 years is not a short time to develop a cruise missile its quite some time. Please read my post above about the tests, Im not going to repeat myself.

Can you provide me website of those institutions?

This is just un-justificable; one country made turbojet engine and no abc in media came out, no IEEE articles came out; for gods sake “scientific world” doesnt works that way!!

What scientific world are you talking about a turbojet engine for a cruise missile isnt exactly 22nd century advancement in technology, the turbojet engine on the aerial drone was widly covered I believe back in 1998, when the first test happened. I dont understand how all countries have to disclose how they did something, is this a law in international technology development? I dont think so.

So maybe you could explain how a country whos previous height of aviation technology was copying a foreign basic trainer jhas managed to produce a 700km range cruise missile?

By the way my previous post was not a flame and I have nothing to be jealous of.

I dont quite understand what a swedish trainer aircraft (i presume your refering to the Saab Safari) has anything to do with the babur cruise missile.

PAC who is responsible for building,assembling overhauling aircraft, engines, radar avionics ect ect deal with all this. The responsibility for Pakistans missile technology is not with them but with NDC- national defence complex, read my post above which describes what they have been upto and how long.

I dont understand how anyone can discredit their activities for the last 10 years or so and say oh its a repainted chinese cruise missile, if you cant back up what you say with solid facts then you dont really have a sound argument.

Let me make it even more straightforward so that you understand what I am saying since you have missed the point entirely:

I say that there is no evidence to prove that Pakistan has mastered any of these critical subsystems or that it has a track record of manufacturing variants of them.

I understand your point of view about it being derived from a chinese missile, but this is again coming into mere speculation has anybody seen the systems onboard to say yes they are definatly chinese in origin. There probably is foreign assistant in the missile, maybe from more countries than China, they do not want to disclose where they have helped, but again this would be going down the realm of speculation.

So since you guys cannot provide any evidence of Pak making these systems or even having the production ability to license manufacture these units, then please tell me- why would anyone – Indian or otherwise, not come to the obvious conclusion that the Babur is another derivative of a proven PRC missile? Such as the Hong Niao, to which it bears more than a passing similarity?

Pakistan has had the ability to manufacture missiles since the early 90s, the NDC who made the babur also was responsible for making a number of other pakistan balastic missiles, even if we assume that all the past balastic missiles were copies of Chinese and Korean technology after more than 10 years do you really think they learnt nothing from that experience and therefore unable to pour in that expertise into building the babur.

Lastly, Pakistan has a habit of testing a missile, declaring it operational moreorless and then rushing it into service. No country can afford to do that with a developmental missile- this is also another bit of proof for the Babur being an off the shelf ready product customized to Paks requirements.

This declaration of the missile being in operation and start of mass production could have another meaning to it that many of you over look. What if extensive testing has allready been carried out on the missile, and this test is just a PR stunt to show the world Pakistan has a working cruise missile, can you imagine how embarassing it would be for the top Pakistani military brass if on the first test the missile blew up or something went majorly wrong. Its obvious to me that the missile must of been tested prior to the PR launch, otherwise it makes no sence mass produce a missile like this unless like you say the technology has been transfered over.

umm, no things dont work that way; you just dont setup facility and put up scientist from nowhere? and work on missiles day and night; you start from credible research institutes; Lets take the tubojet for example If Pakistan has developed Turbojet by now and put it inside a workable missile of 700 kms; there would be number of IEEE articles from Pakistani universities regarding engine developement.If Pakistan would have developed onboard ruggedised such small mission computer there would be semiconfuctor fabrication labs in Pakistan (i dont know if there is or not so a guess) etc etc etc………

Things just dont work as you see or hear.

This is only a percent of the story.

What do you mean nowhere, the facilities have been setup since the early 90s NDC has a number of research and development units within it self that have been working on missile technology for more than a decade. They have units that they specifically work on modern navigational systems (GCC), facilities to built telemetry systems for data transmissions, production facilities for computer and hardware equipment, Aerodynamics & Structural Analysis Center, DESTO another R&D agency I can go on and on. If my memory serves me correctly NESCOM or a related government agency tested a UAV turbo jet engine successfully many years ago in sea skimming mode.

Some universities are involved in R&D as well, they mostly are run by military command and funding comes from within the military as well. To say there is no facilities setup is not correct at all.