Jonesy: (too) Huge!

@TR1: I know of no other navy that always sends along a fat ocean tug with its naval group.

Followed the adventures of Kuznetsov recently? Foir starters, Liaoning, to the best of my knowledge, is not permanently accompanied by a big ocean tug.

You can put the same aviation on a far smaller ship than America class, if you don’t combine with air assault role. Just compare Spain’s Principe d’Asturias sea control ship and Juan Carlos LHD/A. I agree automation can help, but there is a limit to how few crew you can get down to.

For the USN, dispersing air assets of a large carrier over several smaller once is not cost effective: more ships and crew, more escorts needed, to deliver the same aerial punch.
Of course, that doesn’t preclude the usefullness of smaller carriers for smaller navy’s, which will never have CVNs anyway….

Iraqi corvettes set to leave Italy after 28 years
Jeremy Binnie, London – IHS Jane’s Defence Weekly
29 May 2014

The Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri and the Iraqi government have signed an agreement that resolves the long-running dispute over two corvettes that Baghdad ordered in 1980.

The two Assad-class corvettes Musa Bin Nussair (F 210) and Tariq Bin Ziad (F 212) were handed over to the Iraqi Navy in 1986, but were still in Italy when Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. The subsequent imposition of a UN arms embargo on Baghdad ensured the ships remained at the Italian Navy’s La Spezia base with skeleton Iraqi crews since that point.

The Italian Embassy in Baghdad, which facilitated the negotiations, announced on 15 May that Fincantieri and the Iraqi government had reached “an agreement that paves the way for closing the protracted dispute.” It also said the shipbuilder would modernise the two corvettes, which are 62.3 m long and have a full-load displacement of 680 tonnes.

Original URL http://www.janes.com/article/38508/iraqi-corvettes-set-to-leave-italy-after-28-years (no longer valid)
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iraq-buys-former-built-corvettes-frigates-from-italy.315706/page-2#post-5728247

Some pics http://militaryedge.org/armaments/assad-class/

The ships are Moussa Ben Nassair (F 210) and Tariq Ibn Ziad (F212) . THey are shipped on ‘Eide Trader’m which belongs to ‘Eide Marine’.
http://www.cittadellaspezia.com/fotogallery/Il-trasferimento-delle-corvette-2353_1.aspx [pics]
http://www.cittadellaspezia.com/La-Spezia/Economia/Le-corvette-irachene-lasciano-l-234206.aspx [article in Italian]

One of the two units, rather pitched for the long stopping, was also taken to the dockyard for controls and maintenance work.
http://www.lanazione.it/la-spezia/cronaca/corvette-iraq-1.3129523 [some pics of ships going into Eide Trader]
http://www.ansa.it/english/news/general_news/2017/05/22/2-iraqi-corvettes-to-go-home_af67eed6-8026-41ca-a605-4bcb255bee07.html [some pics of ships going into Eide Trader]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]253646[/ATTACH]

OTO Melara on board of Iraqi corvettes

OTO Melara goes aboard the Musa Bin Nasir and Tariq Bin Ziyad corvettes, as part of an agreement being finalized between Fincantieri and the Iraqi government. The vessels will be equipped with 76/62 guns, one of the most successful solutions of the company.

The 76/62 Super Rapid (SR) Gun Mount is a light weight, rapid-fire naval gun providing unrivalled performance and flexibility in any air defence and anti surface role, particularly in anti-missile role. Capability for very effective engagement of shore based targets is also provided for unique multi-role performance. The 76/62 SR is suitable for installation on ships of any type and class, including small naval units.

OTO Melara is a world leader in design and production from small to large calibre naval guns, with R&D capabilities ranging from naval guns to conventional and guided ammunition, from artillery to turrets, from missile launchers to airborne armament.

La Spezia 23/05/2014

http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/oto-melara-corvette
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/newsb/defence-news/year-2014-news/may-2014-navy-naval-forces-maritime-industry-technology-security-global-news/1814-oto-melara-7662-super-rapid-guns-selected-for-iraqi-navy-corvettes.html

I think they just fixed them up and made them look nice again. Only the unit that had developed a list was put in dock for inspection and maintenance (probably sprang a leak or something). There doesn’t appear to be any new equipment (sensors mainly). No weapons mounted besides gun armament. Aspide SAM launcher and racks for Otomat remain in place, as does hangar facility for heli’s.

Related: http://www.revistanaval.com/archivo-2001-2003/armada_iraq.htm An analysis of the Iraqi Navy (in Spanish)
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revistanaval.com%2Farchivo-2001-2003%2Farmada_iraq.htm (translation)

Badger 1968, by chance do you have any further details pertaining to your:
“Defence Staff considered a smaller design, derived from Clemenceau, in which the after guns would have been replaced by Masurca before the project was finally abandoned in 1961.”?

Regards
Pioneer

LOL, thx for pointing out, I hadn’t noticed the age of the thread. ROFL :highly_amused:

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/january-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/4766-future-belgian-navy-frigates-may-have-ballistic-missile-defense-capabilities.html

The Belgians want an ABM capability into their new Frigates. Interesting.

On another note, the good old Europeans are at it again, right now there are FIVE clean sheet designs for what amounts to be GP Frigates in the 3500/5000 tons department across Europe! And i am not even counting the likes of T26´s, FREEM´s, etc, that are a mit bigger…

That’s partically because they are codeveloping with the Dutch, which are implementing BMD on their current Zeven Provincien class. Denmark and Germany are also moving in that directions (sharing same radars with the Dutch). Also, an ABM-version of Aster 30 is in the making. So, we may see Brits and French also moving that way (their S1850M radar on Daring and Horizon ships is a derivative of the Smart-L on the Dutch, Danish and German ships. Spain and Norway may follow, given their AEGIS equipped ships.)