Just a quick question – probably stupid.

There is a real lack of Attack Submarines at the moment and in the future. Always having one around the falklands could be tricky in the future.

The idea that a submarine is down there with Tomahawks is a deterrent.

I wondered if there was a way to sink a container type launcher with 6/8 tomahawks with a data connection to ops room in Falklands. The Argentines wouldnt know its location but with 6/8 tomahawks ready to go it could provide an additional deterent, also one that couldnt be hit in a surprise attack?

Again its probably a silly idea but just wondered.

The data connections bit would be a critical issue, if not weakness (need to input targeting and command info without reveiling presence or position).

Of course, there has to be a container option!

Many systems could be mounted inside a 20 ft intermodal container (with the exception of Tomahawk, that might need a 30ft) but why bother.
•Easier to protect the contents from the weather
•Easy to handle
•Can be moved by most trucks and cranes
•Can be fired from any ship or truck or even convenient patch of ground
•The contents can be concealed from prying eyes
•Systems can be shared between land and sea launch platforms

There are several advantages for very little disadvantage. They don’t have to be fired from frigates either. Any ship with a bit of flat deck can become a launch platform, imagine that.
Using a container and flat deck arrangement also offers potential for replenishment at sea, a heave compensated crane and moderate sea state is all that is needed.

20ft Container with NSM

Operational range
NSM 185+ km
JSM 290+ km

JASM-ER, which is the basis for the 900-1000km Long Range Anti-Ship Missile, is about 1 meter longer than NSM and shorter than Tomahawk: a dual role (land and ship attack) LRASM would make another good candidate.
http://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from/Argentina/to/Falkland+Islands+Malvinas

Modernization “Nakhimov” alexeyvvo January 6, 5:22
Purchases of “Sevmash” to modernize TARKr “Admiral Nakhimov” (from the schedule for the current year).
UKSUR LA-14H-11442M – 120 million rubles. [Universal naval fire control system]
Product 3C-14 – 1.2 billion rubles. [Launchers vertical launch]
CM-456-22350 – 88 million rubles. [Set of tools loading]
Product 3M-48 – 120 million rubles. [Anti-aircraft missile system S-300FM]
3M87-1F complex – 280 million rubles. [Modification SPAR Dirk M?]
3R87-1F, 4387-2F – 80 million rubles. [Combat module SPAR 3H87-1]
3P 86m – 75.2 million rubles. [Control module SPAR Dirk]
ASU defense – 80 million rubles.

MTPK Package – 202.96 million. [Mine and torpedo antisubmarine complex]

RESU 5P-10 – 40 million. [Fire control system “Puma”]
MEDC 5P-20K – 60 million rubles. [Multifunctional electronic systems]
Product MP-650 – 144 million. [Radar “boletus”]
Product 5P-30P – 70.9 million rubles. [Radar Frigate?]
NRS MR 232-3, MK-54IS – 20 million rubles. [Navigation radars, electronic chart display and information system]
NRS MP-231 – 10 million. [Navigation radar]
Complex MTK-M1.2 201 – 200 million. [Multifunctional optoelectronic television complex]
5P-28-11442M – 351.8 million. [EW complex TC-28?]
Product Enchantress-18280 – 20 million rubles. [Station VHF radio direction finding]
5P-23 – 40 million.

System Minotaur ISPN-M.1 – 120 million rubles. [Towed sonar]
Equipment MGS-30M – 4 million. [Emergency control system]
Sonar MG-757.3 – 14.6 million rubles. [Lowerable GAS “Anapa-M”]
PHA-WG products Amga M – 10 million rubles. [ASG reception sonobuoys]

SIC TS – 500 million rubles. [Complex system of technical facilities of the ship]
ICS MN – 460 million rubles. [Management information system, multi-purpose]
The bridge IC-11442 – 12 million rubles. [Integrated Bridge System]
System Sigma-11442M – 160 million rubles. [Combat information management system]
CEB and ECH Gnome-2M-11442 – 48 million rubles. [System of universal time and reference frequencies]
Navigation system Czardas 11442M – 160 million rubles.
The complex nature of hydrometeorological support K – 10 million rubles.
The product lock-11442M – 28 million rubles. [System Weapon joint safe application]
AKC R-779-16 “Ruberoid” – 1.2 billion rubles. [Automated complex communication]
Product Sycamore-MP – 25.4 million rubles. [Shipboard equipment universal time]
Equipment P-403 – 44 million. [Warning equipment]
Desalination P5S-2 – 68 million rubles.
Turbo compressor chillers MTHM-2000RM – 100 million rubles.
Complex CCC “GAMMA-01F” – 44 million rubles. [Complex technical means of security and fire automatics]
The monitoring system of the premises of the ISPO-M-11442M – 16 million rubles.

Further development of design documentation for complex visual take-off and landing of the helicopter “Palubnik-1-11442M” – 17.7 million rubles.
Complex software range navigation and landing helicopters B-7M – 20 million rubles.
Product GUVK – 60 million rubles. [Gyroscopic device production rate]
Product Ilmen – 60 million rubles. [Complex generation, conversion and transmission of information from the system to ensure carrier-based aircraft]
The complex flight data processing – 200 million rubles.

OK-650B-3 – 220 million rubles. [Pressurized water reactor?]

The product is 43 – 16 million.
KPAS NC – 100 million rubles.
SU | 70-08 – 80 million rubles.
Equipment TV CBS-IPTV-11442M – 40 million rubles.
GMDSS – 16 million rubles.
Transas T104 – 8 million.
Fire-M – 12 million rubles.
Xico MRC complex – 60 million rubles.
CT-308-06 – 160 million rubles.
Cascade M – 20 million rubles.
AC MTT – 11.9 million rubles.
MDM-2 – 147 million rubles.
reinforcement systems PPU – 745 million rubles.

PS Apparently poliment / Redoubt, Palasha or shells is not expected …

Translated

Taiwan Announces Plans For New Submarines Week After Ship Launch

Ouch!

Eric Wertheim, author of the Naval Institute Guide to Combat Fleets of the World, said. “Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, and South Korea are the other countries that do build diesel submarines”

Wonder when he said that!

The Netherlands definitively exited submarines design and building in 1996, after the demise of RDM (Rotterdamse Droogdok Maatschappij), which had been on life support since the 1983 bankruptcy of parent RSV (Rijn Schelde Verolme)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdamsche_Droogdok_Maatschappij

3 Batteries as I understood it.

Of course, BT is a Gazelle!

A heavily modified Aérospatiale SA341G Gazelle was the centerpiece of the 1983 John Badham airborne action film Blue Thunder. The same helicopter appeared in the short-lived TV series by the same name starring James Farentino. The modified Gazelle went on to be used in the TV mini-series Amerika. The Gazelle also played a role in the 1982 television film Deadly Encounter starring Larry Hagman. Another modified Gazelle was used as a Russian attack helicopter in the 1988 Sylvester Stallone film, Rambo III. In one scene, the helicopter was shot down by the main character

I agree Jinan, considering Pakistan updated one of their shipyards to build the F22P class building another batch themselves would make sense to me. If the HQ16A was integrated in place of the HQ7A that would be a good step forward and give them a serious area air defence capability at sea.

Umkhonto block 2, VL Mica, IRIS-T SL … something along those lines.

The four Perry-class frigates in question are the USS Taylor, USS Gary, USS Carr, and USS Elrod.
http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/us-finalizes-sale-of-perry-class-frigates-to-taiwan/
http://thediplomat.com/2014/04/to-buy-or-not-to-buy-a-dilemma-for-taiwans-navy/

Carr FFG-52 Todd, Seattle 1985-2013 Decommissioned, on hold for foreign military sale, 13 March 2013

As of late 2014, 9 long-hull Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates remain in active service

Active, to be decommissioned in 2015:
Ship / Hull / Builder commision / status
Elrod FFG-55 Bath Iron Works 1985- In active service, to be decommissioned January 2015
McClusky FFG-41 Todd, San Pedro 1983- In active service, to be decommissioned January 2015
Rodney M. Davis FFG-60 Todd, San Pedro 1987- In active service, to be decommissioned March 2015
Vandegrift FFG-48 Todd, Seattle 1984- In active service, to be decommissioned March 2015
Samuel B. Roberts FFG-58 Bath Iron Works 1986- In active service, to be decommissioned May 2015
Taylor FFG-50 Bath Iron Works 1984- In active service, to be decommissioned May 2015
Gary FFG-51 Todd, San Pedro 1984- In active service, to be decommissioned August 2015
Simpson FFG-56 Bath Iron Works 1985- In active service, to be decommissioned August 2015
Kauffman FFG-59 Bath Iron Works 1987- In active service, to be decommissioned September 2015

“By October 2015, the fleet will be devoid of frigates for the first time in more than 70 years, according to the Navy’s latest decommissioning plan. The last Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigate to be decommissioned is the Kauffman, scheduled for Sept. 21, 2015. After that, the battle force will be without a frigate class for the first time since 1943, according to fleet composition records kept by Naval History and Heritage Command. The Kauffman will be the last ship to be inactivated, scheduled to leave service Sept. 21, 2015. Most of the frigates are to be sold to foreign navies.“
Navy Times, Jul. 2, 2014 By David Larter, Staff writer

It leaves a minimum of 6 FFG7s available for PN (not counting any vessels decommed in 2013-14 that might still be available: aside from Carr, there are 6 OHPs decommed and on hold for foreign military sale > total 6+6=12 available if al those decommed in 2015 als come available for FMS) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hazard_Perry-class_frigate#The_Oliver_Hazard_Perry_frigates

Taiwan need replacements for 8 Knox frigates (4 will be replaced by the Perry’s under discussion, leaving a need for 4 more. Assuming they will take 4 more OHP, that leaves 8 OHP from which PN may be able to acquire some)

United States has agreed to transfer three Oliver Hazard Perry-class anti-submarine warfare guided-missile frigates USS KLAKRING (FFG–42), USS DE WERT (FFG–45), and USS ROBERT G. BRADLEY (FFG–49) in fiscal years 2014 through 2016 to the Pakistan Navy.

Read more: http://pakmr.blogspot.com/2013/12/us-to-transfer-three-additional-oliver.html#ixzz3MSC0mXhG

http://pakmr.blogspot.nl/2013/12/us-to-transfer-three-additional-oliver.html

US Congress Stymies Pakistani Naval Modernization Efforts
Apr. 17, 2014 – 08:44PM | By USMAN ANSARI

ISLAMABAD — Despite close defense ties with China, Pakistan still relies on the US to help it upgrade key defense areas. However, hostility from US lawmakers has effectively halted progress in some areas with Pakistan’s Navy particularly hard hit.

For a decade Pakistan’s Navy has pinned hopes on acquiring surplus US Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates to replace its six now 40-year-old ex-British Type-21 frigates. This met with some success when the Perry-class frigate McInerney was renamed Alamgir and transferred in 2011.

However, three proposed for Pakistan last fall have effectively been blocked as the proposed bill continues to languish in committee without being put to the full US Senate.

Neither Pakistan’s Defense Ministry nor the Navy replied to any request for comment on the issues surrounding the Perry acquisition plans.

http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=35360.10;wap2

US Frigates Approved For Transfer – Finally

This will be interesting to follow in the Taiwan case: the Perry’s lack an operational Mk13 launcher and STIR) and hence Harpoon and SM1 capabilities. The Knoxes that they will replace carry box launched SM1 and Harpoon and Stir, taken from the seven modernized Gearing-class ships, which were converted into area air defence ships under the Wu Chin III program and received 10 box-launched Standard SM-1 surface-to-air missles and associated fire control systems. My bet is those box-launched SM1 will be used to refit these new OHPs as the Knoxes are paid off.