Russia’s next carrier may look something like Kuznetsov but it will be at least a hybrid in the Ul’Yanovsk mould and the STOBAR characteristics will be solely there by legacy of the extant airwing.

Assuming there will be a next carrier…

Liaoning may turn out to be the model for the remainder of PLAN carrier production…this in recognition of the fact that the Gorshkov cold war doctrine actually could suit Chinese strategy and capabilities very neatly. The carrier is essentially a platform for a modest number of heavy fighters. Without cueing and forward-deployable radar coverage, for the airwing, from embarked organic AEW it makes little to no sense as a strike platform either ashore or for well protected naval targets….it, obviously, lacks the P-700 battery for the latter mission as well.

Here, we may well see a follow on domestic design. And it may well include a VL AShM, like those found on Type 52D (though I can’t really see that VLU sitting in the original spot)

Compared to these Vikramaditya is different in that it has, assuredly, no place in the future of Indian carrier or naval development. Its follow-on design has happened already, as you note, but it has no commonality with a Mod Kiev-class in any realistic sense beyond the most basic features.

It, that follow on, is in basic – yet essential – features similar (e.g. size, airwing size, stobar)

The next generation of through-decks on Indian drawing boards after that, allegedly, could even have an entirely different flight operations scheme and, possibly, an entirely different propulsion fit again!.

Agree wrt IAC 2 and beyond.

The route chosen by the IN could well see three carriers in service with completely divorced and incompatible logistics/crewing requirements and potentially even two incompatible fastjet airgroups. Thats where I’m coming from with the allusion to the elephant! 🙂

Yup. But that don’t make Vcky useless as such.

Yes, but there has been rumors about that more than a year now. And there is also rumours about batch 3 for russian navy.

Recent pic of Gorshkov.

Liking her lines. What of p22356 for IN?

I’m not sure I was skeptical it would ever join the Indian Navy exactly. I was hopeful that good military sense would prevail over nationalistic politics, but, the proof is manifest that it didnt.

I still do not believe, for one second, that the private opinions of the Indian admiralty reflect the statement released thats quoted there and I never will. Vikramaditya has held back the cause of IN naval aviation at least a decade locking them in to STOBAR, and the same basic limitations they had with STOVL, just with a flashier fighter than SHAR. They, the IN brass, are well aware of this…as that ‘white elephant’ article demonstrated back in the day. The one thing thats undeniable though is that this ship certainly looks impressive…as any white elephant would! :rolleyes::cool:

Jonesy, I can sympathise with that sentiment. Stil, if she’s a white elephant, then so are Liaoning and Kuznetsov. In fact, with all three, we are expecting 1st gen follow-ons along very similar lines, and only subsequently perhaps a move to a more ‘conventional’ carrier design.

We live in interesting times.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ins-vikramaditya-was-spied-upon-by-nato-aircraft-and-ship-last-year/1/325335.html

Spy Mission ..Exactly

“spying incident”:stupid:

Was she emitting? With what? Does she even have anything NATO doesn’t already know about? Her accoustic signature could have been taken much more stealthily by sub, so I don’t see how thise ships and plane visisiting is such a big deal.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]223007[/ATTACH]
A Royal Norwegian Air Force P-3C-AUP Orion charging past the Russian capital ship. Photo: RNoAF
http://www.aviationweek.com/blogs.aspx?plckblogid=blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckpostid=blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7post:9e1c133c-1226-4f07-94dd-9967a431bd80

Could it carry the air launched brahmos?

See my earlier post: A short bomb bay for torpedoes and other stores opens behind the wing. This internal weapons bay can house Mark 54 torpedoes, depth charges and free-fall bombs. The wings are fitted with hardpoints for carrying air-to-surface missiles. If Brahmos capable, then only fuselage position(s) on the forward fuselage.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]222987[/ATTACH]
The weapons store includes two hard points under each wing (for Sidewinders, Harpoon, SLAM-ER and maybe in future for Storm Shadow, as proposed/expected for Nimrod MRA4), two centerline pylons under the fuselage and five stations in a heated weapons bay for Mk54 torpedoes and mines (Nimrod had 9 stations in the weapons bay). The UK variant will of course use the Stingray and not the Mk54. The aircraft also has at its aft end three pressurised, three rotary and one free-fall launcher for sonobuoys, expendable devices that are dropped into the ocean to radio acoustic information back to operator workstations. The P8 carries 120 of them, against 80 for the P3 and 150(!) for the Nimrod MRA4.

http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.nl/2011/06/5-p8-poseidons-for-uk.html

These two fuselage stations may/might be able to carry a single Brahmos, or a rack which can holds a pair of Brahmos side by side. See how these stations can be used to mount bombs (pic above) or e.g. a large external ground surveillance radar pod, the Raytheon-Boeing Littoral Surveillance Radar System (LSRS) wide-aperture active electronically scanned array (AESA) surveillance radar that is operational on USN P-3 Orions flown by VP-46 out of Whidbey Island. According to the Navy, it plans to use a follow-on to the LSRS radars, called Advanced Airborne Sensors, on P-8A Poseidon aircraft
[ATTACH=CONFIG]222988[/ATTACH]
http://www.warisboring.com/2008/04/30/secretive-radar-for-future-navy-patrol-plane/

Plans to develop this version of the P-8A started in 2003, before Boeing was selected as the winner of the Navy’s Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft (MMA) program. At that time, Boeing changed the basis of its MMA design from the 737-700 to the longer-bodied 737-800 and introduced an aft weapon bay and two forward-fuselage centerline hardpoints. At the time, Boeing would only say the design was to accommodate a classified Navy capability, but in fact, it was to accommodate the antenna of the LSRS.

http://jetdiversity.com/news/aviation-week-navy-moves-forward-on-advanced-airborne-radar/

when looking around I have seen seaRAM was tested on HMS York dose anyone know if this system is up and running or has gone by the wayside as it seems to me that if the MHPC where fitted for Phalanx/searam on top of the hangar and say the navy got 6 systems for the 16 ships it could be away of up gunning a ship if sent in to medium threat duties

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http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SeaRAM_1.jpg
http://maquina-de-combate.com/articulo/sea_ram.pdf

Nicely timed post, Jonesy: 11.11 on the 11th of the 11th.

almost eery!:very_drunk:

All of which are likely going to be operated by their original customers until dead.

Will SPain continue AV8Bs? Given PdA retirement. I know there’s a new ship but … isn’t that likely to get F-35Bs in time? Likewise Italy.