RajanMy view is this.
IAC 1 and IAC 2 will be of the same class. India will have 3 carriers then. The IAC 3 will be a much larger vessel and it will replace the Vikramaditya. India ideally needs five carriers to have 2 or 3 available all the time, and the budget constraints of today may not apply in the future as the economy is growing.
My view is, we should go for larger nuclear powered IAC-2.
I think if IN wants to have good carrier based battle group then bigger nuclear powered one will be prefect choice. If the could build another 37500 ton carrier in parallel then it will be OK. But after finishing the 37500 ton second IAC it will be atleast 2025 for the IN to induct a 64k ton nuclear powered carrier! So the IN did a good job by selecting a 64k ton nuke powered as IAC-2.
Read this….
Defence minister Antony, on his part, indicated that India would go in for a larger 64,000-tonne second IAC after the first one gets going. The eventual plan, of course, is to have nuclear-powered carriers since their “sea endurance” is virtually limitless compared to conventional ones.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-4205577,prtpage-1.cms
A CVF purchase is a game changer in this regard, however unlikely it is.
The HMS QE will be a good choice if IN predicts a war with China by 2017.
RajanYes, but how long will it take to construct IAC 1/2/3 and then complete the first Larger Nuclear Powered Ship???
Thats why I called Shiv Aroor’s view as unrealistic. IN will go for maximum 4 carriers (3 projected), not 6. So the second ship will be a large carrier not the fourth one. As there were reports that the CSL already started preliminary design of a large carrier. There is no room for another identical IAC-2/3.
RajanHAL to invest Rs 25,000 cr in next 10 years
Pres Trust of India / Bangalore November 20, 2009, 17:02 IST
Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) plans to invest more than Rs 25,000 crore in the next 10 years on the back of a strong order pipeline and big ticket projects on the horizon.
The company has an order book of more than Rs 60,000 crore, its Chairman Ashok Nayak said.
“We have got a new order for upgrading the Jaguar once more. Fresh order for the IJT (Intermediate Jet Trainer) is imminent… It’s under approval… May be Rs 6,000 crore additional order. Hawk … Additional 57 — 40 for IAF and 17 for the Navy — they are trying to buy,” he told reporters here today.
Nayak said HAL plans to invest Rs 25,000 crore, mainly through internal accruals. “We have some reserves. Some grant will be given to each project (by the government),” Nayak said.
On how HAL would realise its aim of becoming a $6 billion company in 10 years, from being a $2 billion company now, he said that “big-ticket projects” of multi-role combat aircraft, fifth generation fighter aircraft, multi-role transport aircraft and regional transport aircraft are expected to take off in the coming years.
“So these things will bring the company to that level,” he said. “We hope we can do lot more outsourcing. Infrastructure in the Indian private industry is also coming up. We would like to make use of that,” he added.
Nayak said HAL is in the process of signing an MoU with the National Aerospace Laboratories to manufacture 30-35 ‘Saras’ multi-role light transport aircraft, designed and developed by the latter.
He also said HAL has put on hold its plans to build an MRO (maintenance, repair and overhaul) facility for aircraft here, because “the situation (market for such a business) has not revived for reconsideration”.
Nayak said the light combat helicopter developed by HAL is all set for its maiden flight. “It is expected to fly pretty soon. Maybe a couple of weeks… Eight-ten weeks.”
Nayak said 90 advanced light helicopters (Dhruv), developed and manufactured by HAL, are flying today and the company has received orders to deliver 160 more.
On the cause of Dhruv helicopter crash in Ecuador last month, he said experts are expected to pinpoint the reason with the help of the crash data recorder in a week’s time, though initial indication was that it happened due to the “sharp overmaneuvre” of the pilot.
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/hal-to-invest-rs-25000-cr-in-next-10-years/78837/on
Rajanrajan, IAC-3 is supposed to be bigger, IAC-2 is a twin of IAC-1, all as per shiv aroor.
as for CSL, which is building the IAC-1, it builds and repairs bulk carriers and tankers upwards of 100 k tonnes.
IAC though is its first military project.
Your may be rite. As per Shiv Aroor, CSL to build total five carriers, first three IAC-1/2/3 to be identical 37500 ton and two much larger nuclear powered carrier. But this is very much unrealistic, mainly total number. As per another report (I forgot where I read), design work started for a second 65000 ton carrier. Thats it. Also note that IN wants total 3/4 carriers including Vikramaditya.
RajanBriefings have already been provided on the Patriot to India. The attempt to market the Patriot stretches back to 2004 and probably even before.
http://www.missilethreat.com/missiledefensesystems/id.41,page.5/system_detail.asp
Actually earlier LM made a presentation to the IAF about PAC-3. If I remember correctly George Fernandes or Pranab Mukherjee even watched live firings of PAC-3 at White Sands. But this is the first time IA showing interest to buy them, if the news is correct. Foreign maal… they cannot deny!
Rajanfrom the Times of India..finally an Armed forces general has the balls to speak it out in the open..I really hope that Air Marshal P.K. Barbora is the next in line to become ACM after ACM Pradeep Naik’s term is over.
Then, during an international conference on “Energising the Indian Aerospace Sector”, Air Marshal Barbora launched an attack on the culture of “irresponsible politics” which “impinges very badly” on the country’s defence preparedness.“The internal politics over the years is such that whatever defence requirements are cleared by the government, they are opposed by the opposition parties. And the same happens when roles change and the opposition sits in government,” he said.
Bravo…. Someone has the guts… Indian media is the best for modifying one’s view to opposite direction.
“In yet another controversial statement at a seminar today, Air Marshal Barbora said procurement of Defence equipment
was hampered by politics and called for allowing Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in the Defence sector. ”The government clears something and the opposition says no. That impinges very badly on defence…Private industry has to be evolved and given a market of their choosing and not our choosing, of course with certain guidelines…We have to take steps–we need to be bold enough to invite Foreign Direct Investment (FDI), more so into defence use,” he said. On his remarks about women, he said if he had hurt anybody’s sentiments, he would like to make it clear that he did not have any malicious intentions of hurting anyone’s feelings or casting any aspersions on their ability. He said the induction of women into actual combat roles was an issue between the three services. He suggested a careful ”orchestrated approach” starting with granting permanent commission to women. ”Considering many variables such as our country’s societal environmental and cultural ethos of respect and status of women, a step-by-step approach would be the preferred option in respect of employability of women in the defence forces,” he added.
He expressed confidence that in not too a distant future, women pilots flying fighters would be seen in some form of combat roles. ”I say this as an ‘air warrior’ and one who abides by our constitution,” he asserted. The IAF Vice Chief had said on Tuesday that certain preconditions might be laid down before women are allowed to become fighter pilots. ”We can induct women fighter pilots for show purposes. But, we spend exorbitant amount on training fighter pilots, and if we are not able to utilise them optimally, it may not be prudent to have women fighter pilots at the moment…Once the lady goes the family way, she will be off flying for 10 months. And when we have invested so much, it is not a fruitful development,” he had said.”
http://news.webindia123.com/news/Articles/India/20091119/1387848.html
RajanCan the current slip that the first Project 71 is being constructed at. Build a Carrier the size of the CVF???
IN’s next goal after IAC-1 is a 65000 ton carrier as per news reports. So I think when after launching the first P-71, they can start building the second one. Other wise atleast from 2011/12, expecting IAC-1 to be commissioned by 2014/15.
Rajan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😮 🙁
India eyes ‘Patriot missile’
18 Nov 2009, 0900 hrs IST
India could be poised to sign a multi billion dollar arms deal with the United States to purchase patriot missiles. Before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s meeting with US President Barack Obama, the Indian Army has requested the Americans for a briefing of the Patriot-3 Anti-Missile System.
The briefings are likely early next year after which demonstrations could follow. The Patriot 3 anti-missile system is a guided missile system designed to detect, target and hit incoming missiles. It was initially used in the first gulf war and has subsequently been fine tuned. The C-17 military transport aircraft is used for rapid strategic airlift of troops and cargo. It has the ability to rapidly deploy a combat unit to a potential battle area and sustain it with on-going supplies.
The Patriot missile system has been used extensively in the past in the Gulf war in 1991 as well as in the Iraqi war.
The sytem includes the missiles themselves, the missile launcher, which holds, transports, aims and launches the missiles and a radar antenna to detect incoming missiles.
Meanwhile the Indian Air Force has already informed the Defence Ministry that it wants ten C-17 military transport aircraft. The aircraft was on show during the India-US training exercises in Agra last month.
http://www.timesnow.tv/India-eyes-Patriot-missile/articleshow/4332335.cms
RajanWhat about the Project 71 Carriers???
Media needs something to cover and this never gonna happen… India will definitely go for indigenous carriers.
But as India expressed interest, this article is just the consequence of the HMS QE in IN service.
RajanMedia already started….
The British warship that India wants: quantum leap on the high seas
November 16th, 2009 – 8:00 pm ICT by IANS
By Dipankar De Sarkar
London, Nov 16 (IANS) A futuristic aircraft carrier that India is reported to be keen on buying from Britain is envisaged as a giant guardian of the high seas, capable of travelling thousands of kilometres from home and wreaking massive destruction on enemy targets, experts said Monday.
India has reportedly “lodged a firm expression of interest” in buying one of two huge aircraft carriers that are currently under construction – the largest warships ever built by Britain, and designed to be the most capable aircraft carriers outside the US Navy.
Britain is considering selling the warship to India for two billion pounds under a cost-cutting plan chalked out by its ministry of defence, the Observer reported Sunday quoting senior defence sources.
The two 65,000-tonne ships are being built for the Royal Navy by British Aerospace (BAE) – HMS Queen Elizabeth, on which work began this July will be the first to be rolled out in 2016. And preparatory work has started for the second, the Prince of Wales, due for launch in 2018.
A leading British naval expert told IANS the two warships embody a “huge quantum leap” in terms of technology, reach and power.
“It’s all about power projection. The Indian Navy is in the process of expanding its reach as a naval force capable of operating far from its own shores,” said Jon Rosamond, editor of the authoritative Jane’s Navy International.
“The Indian Navy has been patrolling the Gulf of Aden on an anti-piracy mission, but this ship will increase its reach even further afield,” he added.
“It would give India access to the Far East and even the Western Pacific. The aircraft carrier has a life span of 40-50 years, so there has been a lot of speculation. People are talking about the rivalry with China in particular,” Rosamond told IANS.
The ships under construction are the result of recommendations that came out of a wide-ranging Strategic Defence Review (SDR) undertaken by the Labour government in 1997 of nearly every weapon system in Britain.
The SDR concluded: “The emphasis is now on increased offensive air power, and an ability to operate the largest possible range of aircraft in the widest possible range of roles.”
The warships will be equipped with ski ramp-assisted takeoff at the front, which will suit the Sukhoi strike aircraft that India is buying from Russia, Rosamond said. :confused:
“It will be able to carry not only enhanced aircraft, but also more of them,” Rosamond said.
Strategic experts said that the anticipated “quantum jump” in Indian naval power would have the backing of the world’s major navies.
RajanCould you please translate it ? I found that Swedish to English translators are very very poor on the web..
!!!
India eyes ‘Patriot missile’
18 Nov 2009, 0900 hrs IST
http://www.timesnow.tv/India-eyes-Patriot-missile/articleshow/4332335.cms
US always wanted to sell PAC-3 but India wasn’t interested! But this time the news says that IA interested in PAC-3! Expect to be wrong….
Rajanthe ORBATs for IAF and PLAAF are there in the last page in quadroFX’s posts and mine. do check if they have a much larger 4 gen force than India.
# of aircraft induction too isn’t that bad for IAF (15 mki’s/year + direct russian production) it will only go up in the coming years with the MRCA and the LCA.comparable gen build in India weapons aren’t too much costlier than chinese made ones, when you take the R&D investment into consideration.
I am not going into the details as you already mentioned but there are gaps and those gaps are growing……. 🙂 I can say, technologically in our favor but numerically in their favor.
‘With gaps in the military capabilities of India and China growing, Defence Minister AK Antony on Monday said the country should “build” asymmetric warfare capabilities to counter threats from larger armed forces.
“We (Indians) need to conceptualise and build asymmetric capabilities against superior forces,” Antony told the first Consultative Committee meeting of new Members of Parliament attached to the Defence Ministry, which dwelt on the Indian Air Force (IAF) strengths and weaknesses, here.’
http://www.dailypioneer.com/216154/India-should-build-asymmetric-warfare-capabilities-Antony.html
RajanItaly would be a great partner for Brazil. Though, I think a Ski-Jump mite be a better choice in regards to a future Brazilian Carrier.
As for India and the Super Hornet. I believe the IN should forgo the F/A-18E/F and go straight for the F-35B or C.:D
I somewhere read the they will go for naval version of the PAK FA, so is there any chance for F-35? The F-35 already been offered by LM but IN categorically rejected it.
A future Indian made carrier same as IAC with Mig-29K/F-18E/F or Rafale (ski jump enable one) will be good for Brazil. But Indian shipyards are too busy with IN orders at the moment!
RajanThey should talk to Italy & India about a variant of IAC-I… possibly with cats developed from the BS-5 in Sao Paulo (lengthened & boosted to about BS-5A capability… then they would launch Rafale at full combat weight).
India could then possibly mount the same cats on IAC-3, allowing them to buy F/A-18E/F for it.
Good option. It will be cheaper than European one to buy an Indian made carrier.
RajanGood………..
India should build asymmetric warfare capabilities: Antony
Tuesday, November 17, 2009
PTI | New Delhi
With gaps in the military capabilities of India and China growing, Defence Minister AK Antony on Monday said the country should “build” asymmetric warfare capabilities to counter threats from larger armed forces.
“We (Indians) need to conceptualise and build asymmetric capabilities against superior forces,” Antony told the first Consultative Committee meeting of new Members of Parliament attached to the Defence Ministry, which dwelt on the Indian Air Force (IAF) strengths and weaknesses, here.
He said the Government’s endeavours were aimed at ensuring the IAF’s capabilities are in consonance with India’s stature, aspirations and threat perceptions, and it was taking a series of steps to develop the IAF into a “dominant aerospace power.”
The Defence Minister said the steps included enhancing significantly the strategic reach of IAF to operate effectively far away from the Indian mainland and integrating potent capabilities in terms of space-based assets, air defence, surveillance, modern aircraft and advanced weapon systems.
Referring to the perspective plans of the Armed Forces, he said the gestation period for induction of new equipment was long and, therefore, there should be clarity in strategic assessments and projection of requirements.
“We need to hasten our procurements to prevent voids in defence preparedness,” he added.
Antony said efforts are also being made in the Defence Ministry and its various wings to ensure that the country reached the level of developed countries in defence technologies, without going through all the intermediate steps.
“In our drive for modernisation and in execution of our daily tasks, we must be ever mindful of economy and avoid waste or duplication. We must lend our shoulders to indigenisation and think of ways in which we can reach the level of advanced states without necessarily following all the intermediate steps,” he said.
Antony informed the members that IAF was in the process of considerable transformation and modernisation.
Giving an account of various projects, he said the ‘Hawk’ Advanced Jet Trainers had already been inducted into the IAF, the inter-Governmental agreements on the Fifth General Fighter Aircraft and Multi-role Transport Aircraft had been inked with the Russians, and the evaluation process for the selection of 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft was on.
The Members of Parliament, appreciating the IAF’s role over the years in not only protecting the country but also providing humanitarian relief during natural disasters, wanted to know its road map for the next 10-20 years to meet the security challenges.
Some members expressed their concern over cases of corruption in acquisition process and under-utilisation of funds earmarked for capital acquisition.
IAF vice chief Air Marshal PK Barbora gave a detailed account of various measures being taken by the Air Force to spread its assets across the country, as also to keep the morale of air warriors high.
The MPs, who attended the Consultative Committee meeting included Murli Manohar Joshi, Shivaji Adhalrao Patil, Harsh Vardhan, Manish Tewari, Lalit Mohan Suklabaidya and S S Ramasubbu, all from the Lok Sabha, and Ram Chandra Khuntia, Shivanand Tiwari, Janardhan Waghmare and Veer Singh from the Rajya Sabha.
http://www.dailypioneer.com/216154/India-should-build-asymmetric-warfare-capabilities-Antony.html
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