RajanA people get the government they deserve. ;). All of the problems you talk about occur mostly at the state and local government levels and is because of bureaucrats rather than politicians.
I do live in India and I know how things are. If a government servant misbehaves you can always complaint to the vigilance or his superior (I have a personal experience with a Post Master being rude to me for some one not writing my full name on a parcel send to me, I only withdrew my complaint after he apologized to me, If you have the will to not stand up for **** chances are you have less of it coming your way). Most people in India do not care to do that. They have a slave mentality in them which dates back to the British rule. It is not a by product of democracy but that of laziness and lack of activism from the public.
I agree with yor point that the people of India deserve this. But the actual situation is totally opposite! If the brain of a person is corrupted there is no way you can guide him to do good. Same here. Our head of the departments that is the ministers are the most corrupted people in the world. They made the entire administration and police with the people the choose. I know many people those don’t deserve a high ranking official post in the govt but they are there just because of their support for that political party. You go to a hospital or any other govt service offices you will see how works going on there. All these are because of the corrupted politicians. They themselves are corrupted and make a channel of corruption through out the administration. All most all govt own companies run through loses with all those exceptions they get than the other private companies. But at the same time those private companies manage to profit from the same area of business.
You go for issuing a passport, go for a driving license or go for a gas cylinder they want extra money! You ask why? The reply from them is this, they paid a huge amount to the senior official or minister to get into this post so they need money! I know my local MP and MLA as well as other party leaders in my area. All of them were either anti-social elements or dishonest earlier and now became ‘leader’! When ever I see a problem for our country, the root of them are our political leaders. What ever I say about them are less than the actual. You can see their real faces before the election and what weapons they use for rigging!
Let them put aside! Did you ever think after 62 years of independence why we are still poor? Why Indians are so talented and have so much natural resources but still poor? Why Indians have $ 1.5 trillion in Swiss Bank alone? We made a system with corrupted politicians and if we don’t overtake them we will never be a developed country.
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1837842_1759159,00.html
lol I can’t stop talking about our ‘leaders’.
RajanYou mean it’s the worst of a group from which you’ve excluded all those you think worse. That’s a completely meaningless comparison.
So you want to compare PAF with Afghan, Bhutanese and Maldive Air force? Is that a good comparison? When I pointed out that I was talking about Pakistan, India and China, I see there is no reason to talk over this.
RajanThe actual traitors are the ones who do not believe in an elected government and glorifies the scientists, military etc. I am sure you would be happy if some military leader took over.
I think you don’t stay in India. You have to come here to see the real face of elected govt. If you ever visit any govt office you will understand how they work and what is the situation of our country in the hands of those ‘elected’ politicians.
RajanWhat? Worse than Afghanistan, Nepal, Myanmar, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, the Maldives . . . ?
Would you like to reconsider that statement?
I mean wrt other modern dominant air forces i.e. India, China, Iran, UAE, SA, etc, not Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Bhutan etc etc. I don’t think Pakistan fell in he category of BD, SL or Af forget Bhutan or Maldives.They currently do not have a good 4th generation fighter other than few F-16 MLU. By 2015 they will get arge number of medium tech fighters which are nothing in front of other mentioned air forces. They could get small number of 4.5 generation fighters like EFT, Rafale, SU-30 or even Gripen NG, that could pose a serious threat.
RajanAfter six to seven years of negotiation they ae going to sign the MTA deal!
Sunday, October 11, 2009
Indian Defence Minister Off To Russia, MTA JV Agreement On Anvil
The long-awaited agreement to incorporate a joint venture company to develop and build the Ilyushin-214 based Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA) is almost certain to be signed when Indian Defence Minister AK Antony arrived in Moscow for an official visit on October 14-15 to chair the the 9th meeting of the India-Russia Inter Governmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC), the annual platform that the two countries use to review and discuss bilateral defence cooperation. Antony’s delegation will meet with a delegation led by his Russian counterpart, AE Serdyukov. Both sides will also review the progress on the MTA, on which the Inter-Governmental Agreement was signed during the visit of PM Manmohan Singh to Moscow back in November 2007.
Antony is also all set to put down a hard stipulation that that the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), being developed in cooperation with Russia, should complete its full development phase by 2016, and inductions into the Indian Air Force must begin by 2017. Going by Russia’s new penchant for delays and fantasy projections, it is not surprising that he will emphasise this point on at the commission meeting itself.
The co-development and co-production of the FGFA with Sukhoi Design Bureau Russia has been progressing, with several rounds of discussion already completed to finalize the technical requirements. In addition, the modernisation of the Su-30 MK1 aircraft is also expected to come up for discussion in the Commission’s meeting. The aircraft, contracted in 1996, are due for overhaul shortly and the Russians have offered an upgrade package that incorporates the latest relevant technologies. A deal for 50 additional Su-30MKIs (to take the total number to 320) is also likely to be progressed, but not signed.
The continuation of the India-Russia joint venture BrahMos is also likely to be discussed, in the context of on-going discussion for the development of the next generation hypersonic cruise missiles – BrahMos-2 and the on-going proposal to integrate the BrahMos with the Su-30 MKI fighter platform.
The extension of the existing India-Russia Long Term Inter-Governmental Agreement on the programme for Military Technical Cooperation for a further 10 years, from 2011 to 2020, will be the main focus of discussions during the meeting of the commission. India and Russia had concluded an agreement in December 1988 which envisaged a programme for defence cooperation between the two countries up to the year 2010. The anticipated discussions at the commission level would pave the way for conclusion of the Agreement during Dr Singh’s forthcoming visit to Russia in December 2009 for the Summit meeting between him and President Medvedev.
Info Abridged from DPR Defence Statement
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/10/indian-defence-minister-off-to-russia.html
RajanI love your positive attitude but to me a bit unrealistic…. Even conventional there is no way India can beat countries like China and Pakistan. Back then it had overwhelming powers and numbers but it did not eliminate countries. I doubt it will happen now the entire region in nuclear. At the moment India’s greatest fear is from the inside. Maoist rebels pose threat. According to your respected mr Singh it is the greatest problem at the moment. But there are many challenges besides that. The Kashmir area is filled with troubles. China border is a unsettled area. Tamil problem is not settled. And conventional the Indian power is at development and needs time to become better.
India is still license producing arms and needs to send major parts to Russia to overhaul… There is a whole new world if you talk about MRCA. You do not have a can of people that can do it all. We havfe heard about numerous problems in maintenance of Mig21. Assembly of Jaguars. I do not think that cleaning up the planes is same as mastering them. Otherwise you would not have that many problems with making LCA. There is no decent developed aviation industry that can handle those problems. You can list up hundreds of factories or plans but the end result is that there is no plane flying that meets the standards of today.
Pakistan has the worst air force in the region and don’t compare it with China or India. Both have large number of advanced fighters where Pakistan has only few F-16, those are good enough to challenge IAF fighters like SU-30MKI, upgraded Mirage and upgraded Migs. Pakistan is going for medium number of medium tech planes. But it will be tough for PAF to hold IAF with their limited number of F-16 as I am not counting JF-17 against 4.5 generation fighters. It could be tough for IAF if Pakistan would by small number of Rafale or SU-30 against medium number of JF-17.
What ever India is doing, is in her interest. If India and China ever fight that will be a bloody one for both the countries because of well established economy and Army, Navy and Air force but not for Pakistan. It will take few days for Indian armed forces to complete dominance over Pakistan because of rapid modernization started in this decade.
Rajanwhat???? this is also going to be a 290 km missile!!!
I thought it will have an extended range of 1500km or more…
It was reported earlier that new version of Brahmos would have a range of 800 km but later dismissed by the officials. Russia is a signatory of the MTCR, which will never allow doing that in open. Though I think Brahmos can or can be modified to go beyond 290 km.
It must be Nirbhay which has the potential to be a 1500 km CM but initial one may be 1000 km.
RajanFORCE October 2009 http://www.forceindia.net
‘IAF is Trying to Maximise the Space Domain for Conduct of Its Operations’
Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal P.V. NAIK PVSM, VSM, ADCCredits FORCE
Austin thanks for sharing. It was very informative. One thing is clear , FGFA will enter into IAF service only after 2017 (as well as mentioned in PIB, GOI).
RajanThe IAF received a total of 18 Su-30K which were put to storage quite a few years ago. The plan for upgrading these aircraft to MKI standard was abondoned and the India signed a deal in 2006 to receive 18 new built Su-30MKI for 270 mln USD. Those stored Su-30K were to be returned to the manufacturer (IAPO). All in all the IAF should get 280 aircraft now (140 HAL built and 140 IAPO built).
Thank you. I thought that 18 SU-30K lead them to 238 instead of 230. Now it is 280 as we know. I want IAF buy 220 more SU-30 MKI. It is cheap and highly capable, specially for India’s immediate opponents.
RajanExtension of Defence Cooperation Agreement by Ten More Years to Top Agenda
(Source: India Press Information Bureau; issued Oct. 9, 2009)
(Emphasis added in bold typeface below)
Both sides have, since, been working towards finalizing the programme for defence cooperation beyond 2011. The anticipated discussions at the commission level would pave the way for conclusion of the Agreement during Dr Singh’s forthcoming visit to Russia in December 2009 for the Summit meeting between him and President Medvedev.
I expect first flight of PAK FA in front of Mr. Singh and Mr. Medvedev or atleast unveiling …. 🙂
RajanAbout 75km
Thanks. Then how far ME will be able to track it? 120 km is Zhuk-ME’s search range.
RajanFinal trials of Russia’s Nerpa sub threatened by lack of funds
KHABAROVSK, October 8 (RIA Novosti) – Preparations for the final trials of Russia’s Nerpa nuclear attack submarine before it is commissioned with the Navy could be hit by financial problems, the head of the Amur shipyard said on Thursday.
The Nerpa, which was damaged in a fatal accident during tests in November last year, has been docked at the Amur shipyard’s Vostok repair facility in the town of Bolshoy Kamen in Primorye Territory since the end of new sea trials following repairs.
“The sea trials under the shipyard’s supervision have been completed on time. The submarine returned to its current base for preparation for final tests, but we have run into some problems,” said Nikolai Povzyk, the Amur shipyard general director.
“We have not yet received payments for work that has been already done, and today the electricity supply to the Vostok facility was cut [by a local electricity supplier] because we have not been able to pay our debts,” the official said.
The shipyard was promised an estimated 1.9 billion rubles ($60 million) in government funds in the beginning of October to cover the cost of the repairs.
On November 8, 2008, while the Nerpa was undergoing sea trials, its onboard fire extinguishing system went off, releasing a deadly gas into the sleeping quarters. Three crewmembers and 17 shipyard workers were killed. There were 208 people, 81 of them submariners, aboard the vessel at the time.
After induction into the Russian Navy, the Nerpa is expected to be leased to the Indian Navy by the end of 2009 under the name INS Chakra.
India reportedly paid $650 million for a 10-year lease of the 12,000-ton K-152 Nerpa, an Akula II class nuclear-powered attack submarine.
Akula II class vessels are considered the quietest and deadliest of all Russian nuclear-powered attack submarines.
I think it is Russian govt have to pay for the accident not India. Then also more delays…. :dev2:
Other armed forces should learn a lot from IN… A good article about IN and China…
Time for India to wake up to China
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/op-ed/time-india-wake-china-953
By: Vice-Admiral Arun Kumar Singh retired as Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief
of the Eastern Naval Command, Visakhapatnam
On April 23, 2009, China held its first International Fleet Review (IFR) at Qingdao (Northern Fleet Headquarters of the People’s Liberation Army Navy). The Indian Navy sent two warships to participate in this event which was also attended by warships of 14 other nations. This Chinese IFR, coming shortly after the spectacular 2008 Beijing Olympics, was not better than the Indian IFR of 2002, which had a far greater international participation. The only difference was that the Chinese IFR showcased China’s totally indigenous maritime capability (including nuclear submarines) while the Indian IFR was a mixed bag of indigenous and foreign equipment used by the Indian Navy.Then on October 1, 2009, China held a huge military parade to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic of China. Watching this parade on television, I realised that it was not really in any way superior to our own Republic Day parades.
The only difference was that while China showcased some five dozen indigenous conventional and strategic systems, India’s military might is still reliant on massive military imports, while its strategic capability has to catch up with China for deterrence to work.
Yes, the Chinese are aware that while their military imports are restricted to only Russian equipment, India has the luxury of selecting the best from the United States, the European Union, Russia and Israel. The Indian military can have a qualitative edge, provided the government takes urgent decisions on long-delayed items like artillery, fighter jets, submarines et cetera.
These two events in China remind me of September 2000 when, as a two-star Eastern Fleet Commander, I led a formation of Indian Navy warships to Shanghai. The visit was to mark the 50th anniversary of Indo-Chinese diplomatic relations. Those days, the Indo-China border was peaceful, trade was growing and the Chinese went out of their way to make our visit truly memorable. China, in fact, took out a unique first-day cover to commemorate the event.
Now, of course, things have changed. China has become India’s number one trading partner, has built strategic infrastructure along the border while India slept, despite 1962, and has begun its “pinprick” border incursions even as it supplies Pakistan with conventional and strategic hardware at “friendship” prices.
Since China and India are the world’s two fastest-growing economies, it may be worthwhile to examine a few major strategic differences between the two Asian giants. Firstly, China has a strategic culture, long-term vision and a clearly defined national goal of meeting some milestones:
l by 2010, have military capability superior to its neighbours with whom it has territorial disputes;
l by 2030, have the military capability to fight limited modern wars against medium-sized opponents, and operate a blue water Navy;
l by 2050 achieve global superpower status, economic and military, on par with the US.
India has yet to declare its national objectives from which will flow its national and military strategies. Indeed, India has yet to realise that economic security is meaningless without military security. The era of dependence on the former USSR for security is history, and looking at America to “pull our chestnuts out of the fire” will not help. Even Pakistan has a national objective — of destabilising India.
Secondly, China, like many other nations, has a unified military command under a Chief of Defence Staff. Its military is truly integrated into government decision-making and strategic deterrence.
In India, the picture is completely opposite — a civilian bureaucracy is the sole adviser to the government on military affairs, while the Nuclear Command Authority and the policy of “recessed deterrence” (i.e. all warheads and missiles are kept separate, under different authorities) does not contribute to deterrence as has been witnessed by Pakistan’s continuing India-policy of “death by a thousand cuts” and China’s policy of “hundreds of border pinpricks”. In contrast, Pakistan has an unambiguous “first-use” nuclear policy, while China has a “no first-use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states” policy.
China has traditionally put pressure only on one of its neighbours at any given time. Now that the present dispensation in Taiwan is seen as more “acceptable”, Beijing has shifted its focus from Taiwan to its disputed 4,000 km-long border with India, since talks over the last 29 years have not shown any results and India is moving towards a strategic relationship with the US, after the Indo-US nuclear deal of 2008.
China is aware that India’s long-neglected military may complete its modernisation only by 2015, and hence this may be a good time to pressurise the Indian government into “agreeing” to a boundary settlement on terms favourable to China.
The recent “stapling of Chinese visas” for residents of Jammu and Kashmir (similar to residents of Arunachal Pradesh) needs to be seen as another Chinese effort to ramp up pressure on the Indian government.
China certainly has major problems in Tibet and Xinjiang, not to mention the growing economic disparity between the rich eastern coastal provinces and the poor inland western provinces. In addition, China has major environmental problems of pollution and natural disasters. But these should be weighed against the political will of the Chinese leadership to achieve its national goals and objectives.
The challenges for India are clear. I doubt if any Indian government will have the political will power to change our stand on Tibet, or do a “tit for tat” by issuing “stapled Indian visas” to Chinese domiciles of Tibet or Xingjiang province.
Our present democratic system needs to inculcate some accountability and responsibility, while the political leadership needs to encourage a strategic culture and declare our national goals and objectives till the year 2050, so that our economic, energy and military security go hand in hand. It’s time to wake up as a nation.
RajanYou don’t know what you are talking about. Either that or you cannot write well enough to get your point across. It seems that you assume an MSA will be obsolete by 2015. Not so – a top end Mech will still do well compared to many gen 1 AESAs – the Captor for example. IIRC, the tiffies are not slated to get an AESA until much later – nor do Saudi typhoons come with AESAs. You also have your figures on the Zhuk M off – the designers stated a 150km range for a 5msq target about 3 years ago! The Apg 68 or Zhuk N001s on the flankers may not be powerful enough to give an advantage against a Mig-29K with reduced RCS + Zhuk M.
USS.
Pls can you compare Zhuk-ME with Captor and AN/APG-68(V)9? That will reveal the capability of ME.
There is huge probability of the ‘top end’ will be jammed by an AESA. You did a wrong by mentioning Saudi Arabia as an example! It cannot be an example. They have petro-dollars to buy any aircraft whenever they want, there is no comparion with IAF. Just look for how many days IAF negotiating for MRCA and how many days it took for SA to decide Typhoon deal.
If Zhuk-ME can detect a 5 m2 target at a range of 120 km then how far it will be capable to detect a 1.2 m2 target ‘PAF F-16’? 😮
rojected, few do as of now. The earliest AESAs that will start coming in force in non US militaries will be 2013+ (RAfale).
Rafale already mounted with RBE2 AESA and mass production also started. As well as Japanese Mitsubishi F-2 has a Japanese AESA as well as Vixen-500E and Vixen-1000E are also getting ready fast.
The BARS pesa was evaluated and its range figures were exactly the same as the Zhuk M. Further the Zhuk is probly lighter, has better scan angles. The EL-2052 is not yet ready for production. Pay good attention to Teer’s post.
A PESA can scan a volume of space much more quickly than a traditional mechanical system due to it’s electronically steered and better jam resistance and higher resolution mapping. ‘If’ Bars-29 had the same range as ME then the Bars is still way better then MSA. EL/M-2052 already tested on aircraft and will be ready for production from next year.
The Gorky may not have come on time but the fulcrums are very close to the 2008 date you mention, at current date of delivery I don’t think there are too many options in terms of AESA radars for the 29K – so the ME is the best available.
Mig-29 is also delayed little bit. BTW it was a package, Gorshkov with Mig-29K. There is no point of having aircraft without carrier. There ‘was’ no option, but there ‘are’ options now!
IOWs, your original comment that it is a weakness is flawed.
Not at all! Mig-29K is a good aircraft but still the Zhuk-ME is it’s weakest part. Read about the RCS of fighter aircrafts I mentioned and its capability.
Why don’t you come out and tell us what threat matrix you expect the IN to deal with circa 2015? If you think the IN will be able to approach the SCS by 2015 you are simply dreaming. It will be lucky to have 2 carriers then and they will be used relatively close by. One closer to the Arabian Sea and the other near the Malaccas perhaps (and that is if one is not in dock getting work done). Sending CBGs close to China is still a long way away if ever possible, so the main air threat will be PAF f-16s and P3 Orions. Perhaps a remote possibility of a tangle with Chinese flankers, but the fulcrums should be capable of dealing with these.
Dream? lol When I talk about that? Thats why I said first learn about IN’s views. IN no where mentioned about SCS or something but the BoB, AS and IOR. Regularly read strategic views of the Indian diplomats and ex-IN officiers. Begin with visiting http://www.indiannavy.nic.in/ .
There is no option sending CBG close to China. Then how Chinese flankes will face IN’s Ks? :rolleyes:
As of today the PLAN has little ability to threaten the IN. By 2015, despite their expansion, they will still struggle to overpower the IN. There is more to this than sheer numbers. Let us not forget that the PLAN has to always keep in mind the presence of the USN so close to their turf.
PLAN aleady over powered IN in many ways, read ex IN chief’s recent comments. It is large enough to open many fronts at the same time for IN. Though PLAN has technologically inferior systems wrt IN’s Russian, European and American system but they are rapidly modernizing enough to project power beyond it’s shore and threaten IN in a great way. IN cannot fight PLAN in SCS but it will be a disaster for IN if they manage to do the same in IOR with many IOR countries hosting PLAN. Start with this one….
Time for India to wake up to China
By: Vice-Admiral Arun Kumar Singh retired as Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief
of the Eastern Naval Command, Visakhapatnam
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/op-ed/time-india-wake-china-953
Firstly, China has a strategic culture, long-term vision and a clearly defined national goal of meeting some milestones:
l by 2010, have military capability superior to its neighbours with whom it has territorial disputes;
l by 2030, have the military capability to fight limited modern wars against medium-sized opponents, and operate a blue water Navy;
l by 2050 achieve global superpower status, economic and military, on par with the US.
Some fear that these dates will be nearer then mentioned.
Btw, all your don’t add an iota of sense to your posts, learn when to use them and when not to.
Learning is a never ending process I know that but do you know… “Little knowledge is more dangerous”. Remember that before teaching any other person. Above all talk about a subject what you exactly know not just pretend to be. Zhuk-ME, yes or not but you have to learn a lot about IN!
Read what Ankush/Teer wrote and stop using simplistic analogies. Getting a carrier operational is not as simple as you might think – it will take the PLAN some time on a steep learning curve to gain the experience the IN has operating carriers over decades. By that time, the IN should be in a good enough position to hold its keep – from the Malacca straits to the Hormuz.
These ‘simplistic analogies’ were too tough for you! OK. But don’t depend on other’s views. They have much knowladge about IN I know but what about you? I am not thinking about PLAN’s carriers, but learn that a carrier will not come alone! The combined forces will be lethal enough to threat IN’s view of holding Malacca straits to So Hormuz. Thats why IN need something good enough to threaten a much larger and rapidly modernizing PLAN.
RajanI was wondering, with the IAF wanting 50 additional Su-30MKI quite urgently to address force depletion, with HAL at full capacity and Irkut’s order books full for several years……I wonder if 50 Su-35s from KnAAPO would be an attractive proposition?
238 MKI or 230? Is it in addition to upgraded SU-30K? How man K did IAF have? :confused:
RajanSecond IAF Phalcon AWACS KW3552 at Tel Aviv
credit: Yochai Mossi
September 16, 2009
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6671646
Remarks: Bedek 9 returning home after a 6 hours test flight together with 4X-CZD which is used a target plane to test all the radars and other equipment which is installed on it.
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6671656
Remarks: Bedek 9 @ J13 before being towed back into the Bedek ramp. This one goes out to Vishal Jolapara and Sean D Silva from Mumbai!
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