Another possibility with India’s future Carrier Fleet. Could be F-35B’s operating from the smaller IAC’s. Then F-35C’s operating from the larger CTOL Ships. This in my opinion has several advantages. Which, besides Infrastructure, Support, Interoperability, Training, etc. etc. Could also cross deck with with each other!:cool:

😀

I would agree with you but……. 😀

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090227/120342249.html

He said the carrier will serve as a seaborne platform for new-generation fixed- and rotary-winged aircraft, in particular, a fifth-generation fighter that will replace the Su-33 multirole fighter aircraft currently in service, as well as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV).

“It will be a fifth-generation aircraft with classic horizontal take-off and landing capability,” the admiral said.

F-35B is a good fighter but it will be a nightmare for IN to maintain logistics for four different types of ship-born fighters…. Mig-29K, N-LCA, N-FGFA and F-35B. While the first three will not be a major problem because of their common origin. But F-35 is a new issue… Above all, why IN will go for F-35 when they have FGFA??!!! STOVL?? They already projected Mig-29K and N-LCA as their future ship-born fighters. Both of them are CTOL, not STOVL.

All this chicken counting makes no logical sense.:mad:

None of the aircrafts are imaginary! They are all either in production or under development.

Negro please.

Yeah sure, Russian stuff is cheaper than Western stuff.
but when you start putting western stuff like French huds, Israeli jammers, etc.. it becomes more expensive. In addition, for aircraft that are the first ones to utilize such a combination, it is the customer that has to pay its integration! Don’t be fooled by the cheaper up front costs during the deal. India had to wait years before integration of all these international things work, and the entire process makes the aircraft MUCH more expensive than it really is. The Malaysian Flankers are some of the most expensive ones yet!

secondly, putting western avionics in a Russian Jet will not give it a “western” life cycle cost. Maybe just the avionics themselves. Fact is.. the radar will be Russian.. the airframe is still Russian. The engines are still Russian. and the reason why Russian aircraft have higher life cycle costs are in these 3 things. No French, Israeli upgrade exists for the engine or the air frame.

I think Russians dominate in aircraft design, maneuverability while the Western (+Israel) aircrafts are better in EW, radar and avionics. So combination of both must be a good choice, in terms of $$$ as well.

Some of the technologies used in LCA is mush better than many 4th generation fighters like the AESA radar, Mayavi integrated EW systems. But over all performance might be inferior.

Not sure about that, the likely mix will be.

200 Su 30 MKI (half of them new upgraded with newer engines, Ibris E & R 77M)

50 PAK FA (replacing the older first batch MKIS and Fulcrums..still in production….Proudction starts from 2019-20)

MCA still under flight testing.

200 MRCA.

300 LCA (270 MK2)

I will also think a fleet of Re Engined DARIN III Jaguars will still be service, Mirage 2k and Fulcrums will be phased out.

OK… why SU-30 MKI will be reduced to 200 when Jaguars are still in service!!?? They are following a new schedule to supply all the SU-30 MKI (230) by 2013/14, instead of the original 2017-2018. So I am agree with you that they will be upgraded with new systems but none will be phased out.

PAK FA will be under prductioniz from 2014 (original) and the Indian version from 2016, note that at the same time they will finish MKI production. So I do not think in between 2016 to 2025 IAF will go for only 50 of them. It will be minimum 100 and maximum 150 if possible, here note the SU-30 MKI production rate.

MCA- They have already started work with wing tunnel model testing, radar, avionics and TVC technologies for MCA. I think it will take 2010 to 2020 to make the MCA (Most of the infrastructures are in place, thanks to LCA, MKI and PAK FA) So I think by 2025 IAF will have 40 MCA. Also HAL will use their current production facilities/spaces (updated) of Mig-21 and Jaguar for MCA.

I think it is a good time for ADA to start work for MCA with modular approach and OSA keeping in mind about IAF’s frequent changes in requirements. They will need to replace huge number of Jaguar, Mirage-2000 and Mig-29 by 2020/22.

By 2025, I want to see IAF with

230 SU-30 MKI (2003 to 2014)
100 PAK FA (production starting from 2016)
40 MCA (production starting from 2021)
200 LCA (production staring from 2008)

India details plans for indigenous medium combat aircraft

By Siva Govindasamy

DATE:27/02/09
SOURCE:Flight International

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/02/27/323071/india-details-plans-for-indigenous-medium-combat-aircraft.html

India’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has begun talks with the Indian air force to involve the service in the design for its proposed medium combat aircraft (MCA), and hopes to put forward a plan in a few years to secure government funding for detailed studies.

“In India, we have a fighter aircraft design team that comprises officials from various departments. It was formed to work on the Tejas light combat aircraft, and it makes sense for them to move on to a new fighter design after completing that,” says P S Subramanyam, programme director (combat aircraft) at the ADA, which oversees design and development of the Tejas. “We are engaging the air force on the MCA and finding out about their requirements.”

The agency, which displayed a windtunnel testing model of the MCA at the Aero India 2009 show in Bangalore in February, believes it will take 10 years to develop the aircraft. It also released further details on the twin-engine design, which will incorporate stealth features.

Primarily, the MCA will have air-to-ground and air-to-air capabilities and be able to perform suppression of enemy air defence, precision strike and close combat missions, the ADA says. The 20t design will also have a low radar cross-section, “serpentine-shaped” air intakes, internal weapons bays and advanced radomes to increase its stealth features. Radar-absorbing composites and paints will supplement the design, and there will also be an on-board micro-electro-mechanical system.

The MCA will use an advanced version of the indigenous Gas Turbine Research Establishment Kaveri engine, which is still under development, and is projected to deliver “supercruise” performance, thrust-vectoring control and low infrared capabilities, and a projected top speed of Mach 1.6.

It will also include integrated modular architecture avionics and data fusion sensor capabilities, plus a decision support system, advanced sensors, flush/body conformal antennas and pods, and advanced communication and net-centric warfare capabilities, the ADA adds.

The aircraft will further have the capability for internal weapon release in supersonic flight, high asymmetry control, and a reconfigurable flight-control system.

Subramanyam says that the MCA will not compete with the fighter that India selects for its medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition. New Delhi is holding a tender to select 126 fighters for the requirement, with a selection projected to take place in 2010 and deliveries scheduled to begin from 2013. Contenders are the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-16, RSK MiG-35 and Saab Gripen.

“The MMRCA aircraft are fourth-generation fighters that are already in production and incorporating technology that is already available. The MCA will replace the air force’s existing MiG-29s and [Dassault] Mirages when those are retired over a decade from now,” Subramanyam says. “It is being conceptualised now to use technology that will be available only 10 years from now, and so will be very different and have superior capabilities to the current generation of fighters.”

From: K Prasad, Bharat Rakshak.
AERO INDIA 2009.

Report on Presentation made by Dr. V K Saraswat (Aero India Seminar) …………

Advances in Indian Missile Technology

Dr. V. K. Saraswat, Distinguished Scientist & CC R&D (Missiles & Strategic System, DRDO)

Indian Missile development today are under two groups

– Tactical missiles, such as the Brahmos, Astra, LRSAM and the SRSAM
– Strategic missiles such as Agni 3, Agni-5, AAD, AD-1, etc.
– There is also the HSDTV {{it appears to be for missile use, but not sure}}

The initial missile technology programs began with Devil and Valiant – at this stage, up to the 1980, we were fully reliant on imports for our missiles. After the IGMDP, we have reduced the need for imports to around 50-70%. By 1990, when the IGMDP technologies began to mature, these numbers also dropped… by 2010-2020, our technology requirements should be complete, and we should be able to develop any class of missile on our own, although we will continue to have JVs to gain more technology.

A. Current Missiles:

Prithvi:

The first missile developed under IGMDP… Gave us the following capabilities:

– INS
– Rivets in Aluminium
– Liquid Propulsion Technology
– Digital Electronics
– Control and Guidance

– 3 Variants – P1, P2 and Dhanush (which requires a stabilized platform that can be stable to +/- 5 degrees even in rough seas)

Agni:

– A3 Flight tests are complete
– Production will start soon
– Is road mobile
– A5 in 2010

Astra:

– 3712 mm long, 78 mm diameter(or should it be 178 mm??), 160 kg weight
– Dual Pulse smokeless motor
– Low Observable wings
– Flight evaluation underway

BrahMos:
– Canisterized
– Homing head

Akash:
– 27 km range
– 30m – 18 km engagement {{altitude??}}
– Multi-target handling

Nag (Helina):
– Will have a FCS and a data link
– 7 km range

– 2 guidance modes being looked at – LOBL and LOAL
– LOBL will have a High res IIR seeker, with Fire and forget capabilities
– LOAL will use an RF data link and will have two modes, one of which is a Fire, observe and Guide mode (I didnt write down teh other mode)

B. Future Missiles:

1. LRSAM:

– JV between IAI and BDL
– 70 km range
– 4.55 m long, 225 mm diameter, 275 kg weight
– Boost to HTK (someone decode plz)
– Solid rocket pulse motor
– GPS + data link midcourse correction
– 4 Array PA radar seeker for terminal guidance (I think PA = Patch Antenna).

– Work under progress.

2. SRSAM:
– 15 km range
– 3-10 km altitude
– VLS launched
– Multitarget capable
– Will have Jet Vane TVC control – Jet vanes were used on the AAD, and will be used here as well. they are also developing the Si-SiC materials and ceramics reqd for the Jet vanes.
– Smokeless Solid Rocket motor
– Tri-service will be users
– Enabled for NCW ACCS

{{Please decode this info and the abbreviations}}

Currently under design – not mentioned if it was a JV or if we are going it alone.

C. Project Air Defence (AD):

We are looking at a layered defense engagement of incoming BMs. This can be done in 3 regions:

1. Boost Phase – 180-300 sec reaction time
2. Midcourse phase
3. Terminal phase – <30 sec reaction

We are going in for a late-midcourse & terminal engagement layered BMD system (PAD + AAD). This choice means that we need to give up the Shoot-look-shoot policy and go for a shoot-shoot-shoot doctrine.

The design is for a 2 layered TMD system, with first engagement at 70-100 km exo-atm altitude, and <30 km endo-atm engagement.

This calls for a wide area netwoork entailing distributed IP based WAN n/w., with Triplex communication redundancy, and a latency time of less than a few milliseconds.

All of this is highly advanced and complicated technology that we have developed.

Additionally, the maneuvering AD missiles need terminal RF seekers and 25-30G maneuverability.

1. PAD/AAD
– 2000 km assets
– 40-100 km (PAD) & 30 m to 30 km (AAD) engagement,.

2. AD-1/2
– Meant to kill 5000 km range assets
– Will have an IR seeker
– 5-6G eng manueverability
– Piff-paff solid motor {{I assume that this isn’t some kids toy, so someone plz explain}}

3. Multiple Kill Vehicles (MKV)
– FOr MIRV kills
– will have autonomous terminal kill capability
– IR telescope dispenser and guided KVs
– High fire power approach
– Will attack at the exo-atm altitude

4. Cruise Missile Defense
– while missiles like AAD can easily handle CM threats at heights of 30 m, there is a need for different sensors, such as Space/airborne sensors, including satellite radars, UAVs, and AWACS. These Network of sensors must feed read time info to the mission control centre.

5. Counter-counter measures:
– Development of Counter-counter measures is also ongoing
– classified, so no info given.

D. Future Thrust Areas:

1. Airframe & materials:

– Accuracy and Reliability,
– Lighter missiles – while Indian missiles are state of the art in terms of performance, they are relatively heavier.
– High performance nanomaterials – Carbon Nanotubes
– Composite Casing

2. Propulsion:

– New propellants – high perm {{I wrote this, but cant seem to decode it now 🙁 }}
– Conical Rocket motors
– Carbon- Carbon thin nozzles
– Liquid fuel Ramjet

3. Guidance and Seekers:

– PGMs
– PGMS require cheap mini IIR/mmW seekers {{Rakall, you must be happy}} AND
– microminiature INS control.
– All our missiles have the indigenous INS,
– We are also coming up with System on chip INS in the near future.
– A Star Tracking Guidance is also under development – {{I wonder if this is for A5 or AD. It is not for BrahMos}}.

Seekers, a lot of work has been done on IIR, RF and laser seekers. However, we still do face issues.

– AAD has an indigenous RF seeker
– 20 kg weight
– AAD seeker can detect a 0.3 m2 RCS object at 30 km range.

– EO/IR seekers are also under development, in terms of dual mode MWIR and LWIR seeking {{I’ve written ladalar or something like here…. can someone decode??}}

4. Electronics:
– Electronically scanned array is required for RF seekers and other uses
– Smart Skins
– Conformal antennas

5. MIRV and Decoys:
– Are being developed
– Need active Em jammers
– Also need Thermal signature manipulation

E. Hypersonics:

– HSTDV will be a Hypersonic Cruise missile
– It will have Kerosone scramjet engine
– Travel at 6.5 Mach
– 32.5 km {{altitude??}}
– Has a scramjet flight duration of ~ 20 sec

It will have a solid rocket boost launch, after which the scramjet will kick in, to take it to 6.5-8 Mach. It will travel around 20 sec at this speed at the cruising altitude, before descending and being guided to the tawrget.

Propulsion requires a hydrocarbon based dual mode motor development. Other materials requirements are:

– Ti Superalloys are needed,
– So are TBCs
– And Thermal Paints

– Star Tracking could be for the HSTDV {{Could it?? I mention it because the star tracking slide was jst after HSTDV}}

F. Directed Energy Weapons: :diablo:

We are also developing a High Energy Laser Weapon, similar to the American ABL, for Boost phase intercept.

This is a JV between LASTEC and RCI {{I spoke to some LASTEC guys about it, but there was absolutely no info that they’d give – in fact, they were even surprised how I even knew, till I mentioned saraswat… Will give a report on Lastec later. Have also sent a brochure of Lastec to rakall to scan}}

They have to factor in for guidance, changes in direction and attenuation. A continuous wave laser has been developed and has generated 10-15 kW of power.

Thanks Austin for those interviews. 😀