INDIAN ATOMIC FIREPOWER
Nuclear Notebook is prepared by Robert S. Norris and Hans M. Kristensen of the Natural Resources Defense Council. Data for all nuclear weapon states is available online at thebulletin.org. Inquiries should be directed to NRDC, 1200 New York Avenue, N.W., Suite 400, Washington, D.C., 20005; 202-289-6868.
India is in the process of becoming a full-fledged nuclear power with a wide variety of weapon systems deployed within three branches of the armed services. India’s emerging triad of nuclear forces consists of the army’s land-based ballistic missiles, the air force’s air-delivered weapons, and the navy’s sea-based surface-launched ballistic missiles, which may soon be deployed on its warships. The government of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh appears committed to continuing the policies of the previous government, which saw Pakistan and China as the main drivers for India’s nuclear development, though national prestige may also be a factor.
The size and composition of India’s nuclear arsenal is difficult to determine because all of its delivery systems can carry both nuclear and conventional warheads. The dual capability of its nuclear-capable systems has significant implications for crisis stability on the subcontinent. In a war, especially in the opening stages, the launch of Indian ballistic missiles with conventional warheads could easily be mistaken for a nuclear strike and trigger nuclear attack. Inaccurate or exaggerated claims by government and industry officials combined with unsubstantiated rumors in the media and expert community about weapon systems’ capabilities contribute to uncertainty about India’s nuclear forces.
The 2005 Defence Ministry annual report states that India’s nuclear doctrine is “based on the principle of a minimum credible deterrent and no-first-use as opposed to doctrines or postures of launch-on-warning.” This doctrine requires “a mix of land-based, maritime, and air capabilities, and a minimum credible deterrent to thwart the threat of use of nuclear weapons against it.” The report further explains that India’s nuclear policy includes a “rejection of an arms race or concepts and postures from the Cold War era.” India has not yet explained how many nuclear warheads it believes a “minimum credible deterrent” requires or when it expects to achieve the necessary deterrent.
We estimate that India currently has a stockpile of approximately 40-50 assembled nuclear warheads, but this number is likely to increase over the next decade. An unnamed Defence Ministry source told Defense News in late 2004 that in the next five to seven years India will have 300-400 nuclear and thermonuclear weapons distributed to air, sea, and land forces (November 1, 2004). Whether the stockpile will reach that size or not, the need to control the country’s rapidly developing nuclear forces led to the establishment of the Nuclear Command Authority and tri-service Strategic Forces Command in 2003. Over the next decade, according to Defence Ministry sources cited in Defense News, India expects to spend $2 billion a year to create a Strategic Forces Command infrastructure.
Aircraft. India has several types of aircraft that could be used to deliver a nuclear weapon. Considering range, payload, and speed, the most likely candidates are the Mirage 2000H, the Jaguar IS, and possibly the MiG-27.
The Mirage 2000H, known as the Vajra (“divine thunder”), is a single-seat multi-role aircraft deployed with two squadrons–numbers 1 and 7–of the 40th Wing at Gwalior Air Force Station. It has a maximum speed of Mach 2.2 at 11,000 meters and a combat radius of 1,800 kilometers. Its long range, high speed, and payload-carrying capability make it an attractive nuclear delivery aircraft. India first acquired 40 Mirage 2000s in 1985 in response to Pakistan’s purchase of F-16s from the United States. It ordered another 10 in 2001, and 12 more may be acquired from Qatar. The air force may have used a Mirage 2000H in May 1994 to test-drop a dummy nuclear bomb, but this has not been officially confirmed.
The Jaguar IS/IB, known as the Shamsher (“sword”), was nuclear-capable when deployed by the British Royal Air Force from 1975 to 1985 and by the French Air Force from 1974 to 1991. British Aerospace supplied India with its first 40 Jaguar ISs, and Hindustan Aeronautics assembled or manufactured the remaining 91. The Jaguar has a gross weight of 15,450 kilograms and a range of 1,600 kilometers with a maximum external load of 4,775 kilograms. Three operational squadrons–numbers 5, 14, and 16–man approximately 79 Jaguar IS variants, with additional IB dual-seat trainer aircraft attached. One maritime attack squadron–number 6–operates the Jaguar IM variant, which is not nuclear capable. A likely candidate to host nuclear-capable Jaguars is Ambala Air Force Station, which is 525 kilometers from Islamabad, Pakistan. A few aircraft from Squadrons 5 or 14 may be specially modified to carry one or more nuclear bombs. An increase in Jaguar crashes during the last several years has raised concerns over the serviceability of the 25-year-old aircraft, but the issue appears to have been resolved, as four Jaguars flew to Alaska in 2004 to participate in the U.S. Air Force “Cope Thunder” exercise.
The MiG-27 Flogger may also be assigned nuclear strike missions, although indications are scarce. The MiG-27 is a nuclear-capable Soviet aircraft produced in the 1970s and 1980s. Hindustan Aeronautics assembled, under license, 165 of the aircraft, which India calls the Bahadhur (“valiant” or “brave”). The last aircraft was delivered in March 1997.
When fully equipped, the aircraft can fly to a range of approximately 800 kilometers, although combat range at sea level with external fuel tanks is only 390 kilometers. The MiG-27 has been optimized for a strike role and can carry up to 4,000 kilograms of bombs on external hard points. A few of these aircraft may be specially modified to carry one or more nuclear bombs.
Land-based missiles. Since our last estimate of India’s nuclear forces (see “India’s nuclear forces, 2002”), India has deployed two new ballistic missiles, the Agni I and Agni II. The two-stage Agni (“fire”) I intermediate-range ballistic missile has been tested to a range of 700 kilometers and is deployed with the army’s 334 Missile Group. Its first stage uses solid propellant taken from a satellite launch vehicle based on the U.S. Scout missile, and the second stage is a shortened version of India’s Prithvi liquid-fueled short-range ballistic missile. The Agni’s warhead section separates from the second stage during flight. The missile can be launched from a road- or rail-mobile launcher, and was last test-fired on July 4, 2004.
India deployed the Agni II, an improved version of the Agni, with the 335 Missile Group in 2004. The missile, which has a range of more than 2,000 kilometers, is 20 meters long, weighs about 16 tons, carries a 1,000-kilogram payload, and can be deployed on a road or rail launcher. It was first test-launched in April 1999, flying 2,000 kilometers in 11 minutes and possibly carrying a nuclear warhead assembly without the plutonium core. Its second flight-test was on January 17, 2001, from a mobile launcher at the Chandipur-on-Sea missile test range in the eastern state of Orissa. A third test took place on August 29, 2004.
The Agni II reentry vehicle is rumored to be superior to Western designs in terms of maneuverability and gliding, with an accuracy of only 40 meters. These claims are probably exaggerated, however, given the considerable technical difficulties and command and control requirements Western nuclear powers encountered when developing such capabilities. India is continuing to develop a longer-range Agni III missile to reach distances of up to 3,500 kilometers, but tests of this new missile have been repeatedly put off for several years. In the meantime, the Indian Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) told the Hindu newspaper in February 2005 that a decision had been made to increase Agni II’s range, first by 300 kilometers and possibly more later.
India still maintains its Prithvi (“earth”) family of missiles. The missile began development in 1983 and was first tested in 1988. There have been 28 tests of all types of Prithvis since 1988, the most recent on May 12, 2005. The Prithvi exists in three versions, of which only the Prithvi I (the army version) has been stated by the CIA to have a nuclear role. The missile is 9 meters long and 1.1 meters in diameter; it weighs 4,000 kilograms and has a range of 150 kilometers. The Prithvi II (air force version) has a range of 250 kilometers with a 750-kilogram warhead, but the air force has decided to extend the payload to 1,000 kilograms. An improved Prithvi II with greater accuracy was test-launched on March 19, 2004. India is said to be developing a solid-fueled version, the Prithvi III, that would increase the capability and operational logistics of the Prithvi system.
Rumors persist concerning plans for an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) program, referred to as the Surya. Most components needed for an ICBM are available from India’s indigenous space program. The latest model Indian polar space launch vehicle (PSLV), the four-stage PSLV-C6, is capable of launching 1,600-kilogram satellites into a 621 by 632 kilometer-high polar orbit or 3,500-kilogram satellites into a low Earth orbit of 400 kilometers. The CIA assessed in 2001 that conversion of the PSLV to an ICBM would take a year or two after a decision to do so.
India is rapidly approaching a capability to place permanent satellites in geosynchronous equatorial orbit that could be used to provide continuous command and control of nuclear forces. It declared the geosynchronous satellite launch vehicle (GSLV) operational after successful April 2001 and May 2003 developmental test flights. On September 20, 2004, the first operational flight of a GSLV launched the EDUSAT into a geosynchronous transfer orbit.
Naval weapons. In order to complete its nuclear triad, India is developing at least two naval weapon systems, the Dhanush (“bow”) and Sagarika (“oceanic”) missile systems. The navy successfully test-fired the Dhanush sea-based surface-launched ballistic missile on November 7, 2004, from the converted patrol vessel the INS Subhadra off the eastern coast of Balasore in Orissa. The 8.56-meter missile, the naval version of the Prithvi II, can carry a 1,000-kilogram payload to a range of 350 kilometers; the launch weight of the missile is 4,600 kilograms. DRDO developed the missile, and the Hyderabad-based Bharat Dynamics Ltd. manufactures it. The Indian Defence Ministry stated on November 8, 2004, that the Dhanush is capable of carrying both conventional and nuclear warheads.
For the November 2004 launch, the Dhanush was situated on the aft deck of the Subhadra. A photo of the setup shows the missile attached to a rail-mounted erector that enables the missile to be stored horizontally inside the ship’s helicopter hangar prior to launch. The name Dhanush appears to formally refer to this ship-mounted stabilizer. When ignited, the missile’s exhaust plume is led through a hole in the deck that connects to vents on either side of the ship. The missile appears to be capable of launching while the ship is in motion. According to the Defence Ministry’s 2004 annual report, “weaponization on ships is under progress.” If deployed with a nuclear warhead, the Dhanush would give the Indian Navy its first nuclear strike capability. A June 2004 naval doctrine document argued forcefully for a naval nuclear capability. With a range of only 350 kilometers, however, the missile would need to be positioned close to enemy shores to reach targets on land, making the ship highly vulnerable to detection and counterstrike.
The Dhanush appears to be an interim step toward a more capable nuclear strike capability in the form of the Sagarika missile, which began development in 1991 and is now at an advanced stage. Sometimes rumored to be a cruise missile, the Sagarika is a submarine-launched ballistic missile with a range of only 300 kilometers, according to U.S. intelligence. But India reportedly wants to extend the range to 1,000 kilometers and has approached Israel and Russia for technical assistance to help extend its range to 2,500 kilometers. The Sagarika has not yet been test-launched, and deployment is not expected until 2010 or later.
The Sagarika launch date may be timed with Indian efforts to complete the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV), a nuclear-powered submarine project that has been under way since at least 1985 and is expected to carry the missile. In building the ATV, India is applying design and operational experience it gained from operating a Charlie I-class cruise missile submarine (named the INS Chakra) that it leased from the Soviet Union from 1988 to 1991. The vessel’s reactor is reported to be of Indian design. Scientists at the Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research at Kalpakkam in southern India have built and installed a land-based prototype reactor.
Vice Adm. R. N. Ganesh, who commanded the Chakra, was appointed director general of the ATV project in 2000 in an apparent attempt to jump-start the much delayed project. So far, however, additional progress has not been reported. Full-scale work on the ATV began in 1991 shortly after India returned the Chakra, and construction started in 1997. A launch date may be scheduled for 2007 at the Mazagon dockyard in Mumbai (design has taken place in Vishakhapatnam on the east coast), but technical challenges could delay the ATV further. If delays continue, the navy could add a Sagarika launch capability to existing or new diesel submarines. India has purchased six French submarines, and rumors suggest that it is also attempting to lease one or more nuclear submarines from Russia.
India’s arsenal, 2005
Type/Designation Range (kilometers) Payload (kilograms) Comment
Aircraft
Mirage 2000H/
Vajra 1,800 6,300 India has 40 of this type of aircraft, possibly located at Gwalior Air Force Station.
Jaguar IS/IB/
Shamsher 1,600 4,775 India has 131 of this type of aircraft, possibly located at Shamsher Ambala Air Force Station.
Missiles
Agni I 700+ 1,000 Thirty-six missiles deployed with the armyโs new 334 Missile Group in 2004.
Agni II 2,000+ 1,000 Thirty-six missiles deployed with the armyโs 335 Missile Group in 2004.
Agni III 3,000+ 1,500 Under development. Test scheduled for the end of 2005.
Prithvi 150 1,000 Army version. Deployed with 333 and 355 Missile Groups. Will be converted from liquid to solid fuel.
Dhanush 350 1,000 Under development. Naval version of Prithvi II. Third test was held on November 7, 2004.
Sagarika 300+ ? Under development. Possible flight-test in late 2005; deployment scheduled for 2010 or later.
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Lack of latest news but still good infos…
Efficacy of Close Loop Guidance and Control : Kalam
http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=12095
Let me give you an event-based experience of the missile programme which has similarity to the mission of CAG. When I see the audit and corrective action needed in the financial management field, I am reminded of technical events taking place in sequence in the case of flight trajectory. Let me refer to the launch of Agni missile system. It is a controlled and guided flight from the time of launch till it reaches the target at long range. At t=0, the time of launch, automatic launch control system gives the take off signal, after testing about 600 parameters in few seconds. If all the parameters are within the specified error band, computer gives a go-ahead signal. Missile takes off. The Missile has an onboard computer that carries the specified trajectory which is to be followed by the missile from the time it takes off till it reaches the specified impact point. Any deviation from the trajectory is detected and quantified by the computer and fed continuously to the control system of the missile. The control system operates the fast reaction thrusters in all the three axes of flight and corrects the deviation and brings the missile to ride on the required trajectory in real time. If the corrective action is not done in real time, the missile will reach far away from the target and the mission will be a failure. Guidance and control with its onboard computer acts as the brain of the missile. During the flight of the missile, it is responsible to guide the missile to the target to meet the mission requirements and succeed. From this guided missile flight example I would like to share the following experiences.
1. It is necessary for the guidance and control system to monitor the deviation continuously on all the three axes and guide the missile to fly towards the target. The missile control system provides continuous feedback to the missile. This example reveals that the missile successfully reaches the target with the partnership of guidance and control system which is able to foresee the deviation and error and provide continuous correction. If the correction is provided after the event is over, you can see that the mission will not succeed. Similarly, if the auditors audit after the event is over or the mission is completed they will see many deviations but they are too late to correct. I am sure you can realize the importance of providing online corrections to the deviations.
2. In the missile development, 3000 engineers and staff work in the field of propulsion, aerodynamics, structures, guidance and control, instrumentation and flight simulation. The success of the flight comes out from system design, system integration, configuration management and system management. A dominant group called quality assurance and quality control group constantly works with the missile team to find the deviations of various sub-systems and systems online from design to development completion, so that the integrated missile performs to the mission specifications reliably. It is equivalent to system audit being carried out by the CAG.
mate there is a separate thread for Brahmos.please Delete it and post it in the Brahmos thread.
this thread is for Agni-1, Agni-2, Agni-3, Prithvi-1/2/3, Dhanush, Sagarika etc.
Chech your PM.
MISSILE TECHNOLOGY
A success story
T.S. SUBRAMANIAN
Frontline
Sep.24 – Oct.07 2005
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2220/stories/20051007002009200.htm
The four-year-old Advanced System Laboratory in Hyderabad has contributed immensely to the success of India’s missile development programme, which has reached the intercontinental ballistic missile stage.
K. GAJENDRAN

R.N. Agarwal, former Director, Advanced System Laboratory, and former Programme Director, Agni, in the laboratory with replicas of Agni-I (left) and Agni-II.
AT the Advanced System Laboratory (ASL), the missile centre in Hyderabad, path-breaking work is under way on frontier technologies such as Micro-Electro-Mechanical Systems (MEMS), carbon nano-tubes, and single and multi-walled tubes in evolutionary future material. It would revolutionise aerospace technology, healthcare, electronics, computers and communications, said R.N. Agarwal, Director, ASL, a few weeks before his retirement on July 31. “Our dream is to make more powerful, smaller and lighter systems, which will be possible with these technologies. The country should put more emphasis on nano-technology, particularly in nano-tubes,” he said. The low-profile Agarwal was the architect of India’s strategic missiles such as Agni, Agni-II and Agni-I. He was the Programme Director of Agni. He is proud that India today has the capacity to make large-sized composite rocket motors with totally indigenous know-how, equipment and components.
The development of Agni-III is in an advanced stage at the ASL, according to Agarwal. All major systems and sub-systems have been developed and tested. Repeated tests on certain systems and integration are under way. Agni-III’s range is between 3,000 km and 3,500 km. “Many challenging technologies have been incorporated in Agni-III. It should be ready for launch by the year-end,” he said.
The ASL has already achieved a breakthrough by developing a heat-shield made of carbon composite without any metal back-up. (The heat-shield protects the warhead and avionics from the high temperatures generated by the missile’s re-entry into the earth’s atmosphere.) “We were the first one to do the carbon composite heat-shield without any metal back-up. It has been designed, developed and flight-tested for Agni, and it is perhaps the first heat-shield of its kind in the world,” Agarwal said.
The ASL has also developed radomes. “Radome” is a portmanteau word, coming from radar and dome. “The largest radomes, including those for the Light Combat Aircraft, have been developed by the ASL and flight-tested sucessfully,” Agarwal said.
Agarwal, who narrated to Frontline the success story of the development of the Agni, Agni-II and Agni-I missiles at the Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), Hyderabad, paid generous tributes to his colleagues. “It is always team work. Big jobs cannot be done by a single individual. Big technologies and systems cannot be developed by one individual. We have a dedicated team,” he said.
In the initial days, when Agarwal and his team did not have enough resources in terms of manpower and technology, they would meet A.P.J. Abdul Kalam in the evening and express their “woes” to him. Kalam, who is now the President of India, had in 1982 joined the Defence Research and Development Organisation as DRDL Director.
Agarwal recalled those days of struggle and “slogging”. He reminisced how the conversation would run between him and Kalam. “My problem was that I did not have sufficient manpower. And Kalam would say, `I am working for you.’ ” The room burst into laughter as Agarwal said, “Our reaction then would be, `If Kalam and Agarwal alone were to make Agni, then every household would have Agni.’ ”
Agarwal hails from Jaipur, Rajasthan, where he had his early education. After graduation, he joined the Madras Institute of Technology (MIT) at Chromepet, Chennai, for his post-graduate course in Aeronautical Engineering. After passing out from MIT, he completed his Master of Engineering in Aerospace Engineering from the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore. He has won several awards. They include Padma Sri (1990) and Padma Bhushan (2000); the Dr. Biren Roy Space Science Award (1990); the DRDO Technology Leadership Award (1998); the Chandrasekhara Saraswati National Eminence Award for Science (2000); and the DRDO Lifetime Achievement Award (2004).
When the programme on the development of a technology demonstrator for the Agni missile began as part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP) in 1983, the objective was to establish the re-entry technology for long-range missiles. “Re-entry was the original aim, not the missile itself. So we started working on the re-entry vehicle for long-range missiles,” Agarwal said. He and his team had aimed at a 100 kg payload to reach velocities between 5 km and 8 km a second for simulating re-entry conditions. But in mid-course, in 1985, it was decided that the payload should weigh one tonne. So the entire scenario – of the size of the missile, its launch systems and critical dimensions – underwent big changes. “Although it was painstaking in mid-course to make a change of this magnitude, we slogged and revised the designs for the one-tonne payload, including the launcher and the launch complex,” Agarwal said.
Kalam was the Project Director of the Satellite Launch Vehicle-3 flights of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) in 1979 and 1980. During one of his early visits to the aerodynamics test facility group headed by Agarwal at the DRDL, Kalam asked Agarwal, “What is happening?” The group was then engaged in building a supersonic wind tunnel and high-altitude test facility for high-enthalpy tests. A surprised Kalam asked, “High-altitude test facility? You make a report on the re-entry test vehicle for re-entry technology and also for setting up the high-altitude test facility.”
When the project report was ready, it was reviewed by a forum of scientists and technologists. The project formed part of the IGMDP, which also included Trishul, Prithvi, Akash and Nag. Kalam gave the go ahead and the Agni-Technology Demonstrator project was born.
“In July 1983, when Indira Gandhi launched the IGMDP, I was surprised to see that the Project Director for Agni was R.N. Agarwal,” said Agarwal, with justifiable pride. Within six years, the Agni-Technology Demonstrator project team was ready with the missile for its maiden flight. But the flight had to be postponed twice – first on April 20, 1989, and then on May 1, 1989. The missile finally soared into the sky from the Interim Test Range at Chandipur-on-Sea, near Balasore, Orissa, on May 22, 1989. The country had looked forward to the launch of this intermediate-range ballistic missile (IRBM). As an analyst put it, the launch of the Agni missile had become a talking point across the country.
The launch was a success. “It had a textbook trajectory, validating the total design and development of all hardware and software,” recalled Agarwal. At a technical briefing in New Delhi, when Kalam, who was the DRDL Director, was asked about the consequences of the Agni-Technology Demonstrator, his terse reply was: “Strength respects strength and technology honours technology.” The range of the Agni-Technology Demonstrator was 1,600 km.
Encouraged by this success, the project team made technological refinements and modifications in the next flight of Agni to achieve a longer-range missile with manoeuvring re-entry. Two more flight-tests of Agni were held, in 1992 and 1994, establishing the re-entry technology for long-range missiles and the manoeuvring re-entry technology.
In 1995, the operationalisation of Agni began with the development of the Agni-II missile. It was an ambitious project because the missile was capable of delivering payloads over a distance of 2,000 km. Many new areas of technology, including mobile launch systems and upper-stage motors, were developed. The first flight of Agni-II took place on April 11, 1999, from a mobile launcher at a new launch complex. “It was again a total success in its launch systems, missile systems and velocity,” said Agarwal. Agni-II weighed 17 tonnes.
The second flight of Agni-II also went off well, validating the system’s design, development and reliability. With the user identified, there was another flight in August 2004 with the user’s participation, and it was again a success.
Meanwhile, there was a felt need for a missile with a range of 700 km. According to Agarwal, although the Agni-I system was smaller, it had its own technological problems, particularly during its flight through the atmosphere for about 10 to 12 seconds with the closed-loop guidance system, high acceleration and associated rocket motor propellant issues. But these problems were tackled. The first flight-test of Agni-I from a road mobile launcher took place in January 2002. This was within 15 months of the project being sanctioned – a significant achievement. Agni-I weighed 12 tonnes. The second flight took place a year later in January 2003 and the third flight in July 2004. The third flight was done with user participation.
“All the three flights met the mission objectives, and validated the designs and reliability of the systems,” said Agarwal.
a hypothetical attack of a new heavily armed (RAM/ESSM/Aster/SM2) Euro-DDG or Aegis ship would obviously not be a one shot deal, more like 15 fired from the same direction to overload the defences on a single axis.
same old rules as with Oscar-IIs unloaded a wolfpack of Granits…in a newer, smaller garb.
A pack of Klubs mixed in with the salvo would also be nice, time the salvo to arrive just as the defences get busy dealing with the front wave of brahmos…
Right. Salvo launch is a good way to counter enemy anti-missile systems. Different types of missiles like Brahmos, Klub and future MM40-3 launched in a way of launch agianst will be very effective against a surface group.
From your Janes article..
“The significance of BrahMos lies in its very
high-speed and intelligent behaviour. Each missile has
been designed to operate as part of a salvoed attack,
with a datalink net between the inflight missiles
updating them on target co-ordinates plus the status
of the other weapons in the attack. BrahMos’s high
speed makes it a difficult target to defeat – Western
intelligence agencies believe it may also have a
low-probability of intercept (LPI) ‘stealthy’ radar
option available to it, adding to its chances of
reaching the target.”
Fusion of many capabilities in one missile. ๐
The ESSM should be able to in theory, intercept a Brahmos, what is the speed of the new sparrows?
3.5-4 mach
Not only speed Brahmos have low-probability of intercept (LPI) ‘stealthy’ radar adding to its chances of reaching the target without detected at long/medium ranges. (Janes)
If you seen the Brahmos AeroIndia-2003 video itโs mentioned that
1. high lethal power due to high cruising speed and 200 kg high explosives.
2. very low radar signature.
3. effective ECCM.
These three capabilities make Brahmos different from other cruise missiles in Brahmos’s category and makes anti-missile system difficult to intercept it.
If Sparrow flyโs at Mach 3.5, Brahmos flyโs at Mach 2.8, so the speed isn’t too differ as Sparrow have to intercept Brahmos. Note that Sparrow have to intercept a stealthy cruise missile with high speed and robust ECCM but Brahmos have to destroy far more bigger target, a ship.
So I think .the probability of destroying ship equipped with new Sparrow with Brahmos is in favor of Brahmos.
MTCR had little to do with its AsuW range being stated as 300 km that is its AsuW range, even earliar articles on yakhont/onyk all clearly stated that its range is around 280 km.
Jon, they mentioned the range of Yakhont or Brahmos is 300 km because both missiles are to be exported too many third countries. Malaysia, Indonesia & Vietnam already been selected as primary customers of Brahmos.
But I am talking about Indian/Russian Brahmos missile.
What is at question is land attack range which being its secondary role will never be released for obvious reasons as is the case with other AshM similar to it.
That is my point. Brahmos is a potential LACM as well as AShM. ๐
Though both Scorpene and Agosta-90 (Pakistan) has SUBCTIS, it is been entirely upgraded with new gen systems. There are almost 12 years difference between Pakistan gets it 1st Agosta-90 and India getting Scorpene. Without most of the systems do not remain same.
And Indian Navy will not buy the same system Pakistan have, will go for better like other deals.
In the above news article Vishnsu Som first said
Risky venture
But there is one important rider in the deal. The Indian subs will not be built at the facilities at Cherbourg in France. They will instead be built at the government-run Mazagaon docks in Mumbai.
It’s a risky venture, since it’s been 11 years since India built a submarine. And there are concerns that in-house technicians, mechanics and welders at Mazagaon, may have lost their highly technical skills in the absence of any orders from the government.
It’s a risk the French defence consortium Armaris is well aware of.
Not only do they have to rely entirely on the manufacturing skills of Indian technicians, they must also guarantee that the performance of the Indian-built submarines, matches that of submarines built in France.
If it all works out, then the Indian Navy will have one of the most potent submarine fleets in the world.
But than
And then, there’s the indigenous Advaced Technology Vessel or ATV project, a homegrown nuclear submarine, construction of which remains an open secret.
It’s not clear when the first ATV will be commissioned, but sources say the prototype built with considerable Russian expertise is almost ready.
At the DCN Shipyard at Cherbourg, France, in October 2003, a Scorpene-type submarine under construction.

Indian Navy to gain teeth with Scorpene subs
——————————————————————–
Vishnu Som
Sunday, September 25, 2005 (Paris):
The deal for Scorpene submarines is one of India’s biggest ever defence deals, which was signed earlier this month during Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s visit to France.
India is paying more than $3.2 billion for six state-of-the-art French-designed Scorpene submarines.
The particular submarine, the O’Higgins, had been built for the Chilean Navy.
And now, a year after it signs its contract, the Indian Navy can expect to receive its first Scorpene, and one submarine every year in a six-year production run.
Risky venture
But there is one important rider in the deal. The Indian subs will not be built at the facilities at Cherbourg in France. They will instead be built at the government-run Mazagaon docks in Mumbai.
It’s a risky venture, since it’s been 11 years since India built a submarine. And there are concerns that in-house technicians, mechanics and welders at Mazagaon, may have lost their highly technical skills in the absence of any orders from the government.
It’s a risk the French defence consortium Armaris is well aware of.
Not only do they have to rely entirely on the manufacturing skills of Indian technicians, they must also guarantee that the performance of the Indian-built submarines, matches that of submarines built in France.
If it all works out, then the Indian Navy will have one of the most potent submarine fleets in the world.
Latest technology
The Scorpene incorporates the very latest Naval technology. At the heart of the submarine is the SUBTICS integrated combat system, a highly computerised central management system, which oversees all of the submarine’s sensors and its weapons.
With a highly computerised system like SUBTICS in place, the number of officers and sailors on each submarine goes down drastically. Each Scorpene has a total complement of just 31.
The SUBTICS is in fact, a system, which is very similar to what has been installed on the Agosta 90 B submarine, another Armaris-designed submarine in service with Pakistan.
Pakistan, which has been using French-built submarines for decades, has selected the French-built Agosta to be the first submarine type it has constructed at home.
But any talk of similarities between the two subs is quickly dismissed.
Maintaining silence
Despite the breakthrough in the Scorpene deal after negotiations lasting several years, the Indian Navy remains entirely silent, and has refused to comment on the deal with France.
“Navies don’t talk about their submarines,” has been a standard line for years. But the fact remains that the Indian Navy has invested heavily in submarine technology for its future.
Submarines are, in fact, the ultimate stealth weapons.
Despite advances in sonar technology over the decades, detecting, tracking and targeting submarines remains extremely difficult, particularly in the Indian Ocean where the salinity of the seas and the presence of thermals zones of variable water temperature, make submarine detection extremely difficult.
Submarines like the Scorpene make this game of detection and counter-detection even tougher.
Designed to be extremely silent, the Scorpene can loiter under water for days, scouring the seas through long-range passive sonar signals, which detect the presence of other submarines and warships in the vicinity.
Formidable platform
However, the workhorse of the fleet is the Russian-built Kilo class submarine. Several generations behind the Scorpene in terms of its sonar and detection capabilities, the Kilo has nonetheless been recently upgraded.
It can now fire long-range anti-ship cruise missiles, making it a formidable platform.
It is these submarines, which are attracting a lot of interest. Sources say that a deal to acquire two Russian-built Akula nuclear powered submarines is almost through.
With an almost unlimited supply of power, nuclear submarines like the Akula, can remain on patrol almost indefinitely, transforming the Indian Navy from a regional to a global player.
And then, there’s the indigenous Advaced Technology Vessel or ATV project, a homegrown nuclear submarine, construction of which remains an open secret. ๐
It’s not clear when the first ATV will be commissioned, but sources say the prototype built with considerable Russian expertise is almost ready.
Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Indian Navy went through some of its most challenging times, when even basic spares for its frontline warships were no longer available.
But things have clearly changed. Over the last few years, a lot of the very latest Naval technology in addition to several new warships have joined the fleet.
And now, this deal for six Scorpene submarines is one, which gives the Navy’s underwater arm the much needed teeth. ๐
A very high ranking officer of the IN once mentioned the Brahmos’s range as 300 miles. Simple confusion between units or reality..?
Make more sense to be 300 miles. But MTCR pressed BAPL to say it is 300 km. Thanks Harry to make it clear with reliable info. ๐
Brahmos’s current hi-low trajectory is better for SEAD, make impossible for anti-missile systems to intercept it which also fly at Mach 2.8. ๐
300km would do just fine for now.
It is now or never for Akula. If the submarines delivered with 300 km misile it will be very hard to install bigger size cruise missile later and will take lot of $$$. ๐ฎ
IN need it now as Pakistan conducted trials of Chinese cruise missile last month. :rolleyes:
One solution is, keep empty place for Sagarika 2500 km range cruise missile bunderdevelopment reported by DefenseNews, Globes and other news sources. DRDO website also shown an image of current 300 km range Sagarika. It could be armed later when Sagarika comes in service. Untill than 300 km Brahmos/Klub can do the work. ๐
Should carry all except the SS-N-21 Samson Cruise Missile , India could replace it with Klub ,or its own subsonic long range cruise missile.
Only some 300 km missile for this huge 9000 ton strtegic nuclear submarine? I wish/pray, we may see something atleast 1500 km range Indian or Russian cruise missile. ๐ฎ ๐ ๐
So Akula Class SSNs are coming to India by the end of next year. But what weapons are coming with them ?
Aww Boo Booo
Its not HDW-209 I also thought about itโฆโฆ
Here is a pic of HDW-209 in Mumbai Yard via
http://img395.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sub5ad.jpg
And it never be kilo because they are upgrading by Russia later will be by Vizag not Mumbai.
Look at the sail and how the rear part blends down into the fuselage instead of a sharp vertical shape of Kilo/U209. Remind you of this,
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/akula/images/akula6.jpg
The forward part of sail and fwd hull appears incomplete. The rear part is in the usual red primer we use for ships under construction.
The rear hull also looks fatter and more substantial than a Kilo.
People who can see the nearby ships can perhaps come up with the rough
dimensions of this beast.
It is also bigger than any HDW-209 & Kilo also taken from Google earth.
Can someone please take better clear pics of this sub and post it ?
What about 2nd pic? Upper ship may be Godavori class under refit note the huge inclined missiles and lower ship may be Delhi class under upg.
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Which sub it is under cons at Mumbai? ATV? ๐

P-17 and P-15A or Kashin or P-15??
