RajanWell this is a militray forum and militaries tend to be secretative. YES, generally we are therefore are speculating, to a large extent, the forum would be less interesting if specualtion was banned.
Thanks!
I trust the source I quoted, honestly I cant be bothered to dig through sinodefenceforum and find it. However alot of people trust this guy’s website, read on to J 10B section.
http://cnair.top81.cn/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm
It might not be the magazine article, which I read but better then nothing.
Have China developed a ESA for a fighter aircraft? I mean, without speculation.
RajanI give you the source as PAF cheifs recent interviews and you ask me if I’ve given a source??!! – do you even read the post before replying?? Or perhaps a Cheif of Air Staff is not a good enough source for you — I’ll see if the Queen mother is available!
If you couldn’t even work that one out I can only feel sorry for you. The only future sources of fifth generation fighters are Russia, USA and India???!!! You are so correct — so much darkness is not good — please come out of the darkness.
So what would you compare the J10B with — even with the limited info available? EFT / RAFALE / J10B — all with advanced radars, similar canard design, powerfull engines — Care to explain the vast differences between them which makes them like grapes and oranges??
I did not know PAF asked for Gripen and got refused — please confirm your sources. Regardless this is a bit beside the point — the point is — is what they are going to get going to maintain credible detterance — and my take on that is a resounding yes.Read up what US Office of Naval Intelligence has to say about even the basic J10 — add AESA and all the other improvements on the J10B for a fair assessment. If you can provide any independant sources which assess the AESA equipped J10B as no comparison to the latest fighters from Europe — please do share.
I read up your post well now most of your claims are not available and 180 degree opposite to the real world truth. Here we mean by source is a link of article/news, not like what someone tells in another forum!
First there is nothing like J-10 with AESA, now you are talking about PAF going to have J10 with AESA! Is there any deal with China for J-10 with AESA? I fear even they don’t have one for themselves!
Rajanactually no, this India strategic article aroor quotes from refers to the same info that came out earlier this month. as for the few months back I don’t remember he said anything of the sort. only ajai shukla reported the weight problems and said flight tests were postponed to end of year.
They rescheduled the first first flight many times from 2007/2008. Later it was decided to fly by early 2009. Around Sep/Oct there were some news that it will fly by Nov/Dec. Then in between Dec 26 to Dec 29! But its almost 2010 now. Actually when the project was started, it was scheduled to fly around 2005. 🙂
RajanAs for FC-20 AESA — ‘lining up’ please read up on Paf Cheifs latest interviews with AFM – I think we can trust this source-no?? Currently Chinese type but potentialy western sourced.
Have you given any source?
From which countrywill counter to PAK FA come?? I’ll let you take a stab in the dark —- its very obvious if you just try— see if you can get it correct.
lol So much darkness is not good. Just recently PAF got it’s hand on a fourth generation fighter and yet to get any BVRAAM in number! Forget USA or Russia/India selling PAF any fifth generation fighter. There is no other source.
With regards detterance to Eurofighter / Rafale – I believe FC-20 will be sufficent for this. If you resent my view please read up on the view of independant sources on how capable the ‘J10B’ is likely to be.
If J-10 is sufficient against EFT/Rafale than everything is possible in this world! Its like comparing a grape with an orange! But for no reason PAF tried to get western fighter like Gripen before going for J-10! I think they did not have any other choice. 😉
Which ‘independent’ sources you are talking about?
RajanLCH first flight in a few weeks, says HAL Chairman
That is what he said ‘a few months ago’ as well! 😉
Photo India Strategic
RajanThis is why Pakistan is lining up the FC-20 with AESA radar – which should be suitable opponent for most of your list — the PAKFA is some way off — and suitable counters will emerge over the next decade.
Which AESA PAF ‘lining up’? As for PAK FA, two most advanced aviation industries ie USA and Russia took so many years to develop fighters like F-22 and PAK FA, now from which country do you expect to emerge one?
As for challenging / winning — Pakistan’s stated goal is ‘minimum credible detterence’ —— ie your combined forces have sufficent detterance value to stop any aggression from the opponent. I think their current aquisitions and plans are well in line to maintain this.
MCD is good enough but there you need something for deterrence. Against Eurofighter you may field any number of Rafale or against F-22 you can feild PAK FA, so that there are chances of win.
Rajanan engine developed jointly by Snecma and the GTRE would not meet the IAF’s performance requirements.
I think IAF should set their requirements first than they can go for a JV based on that but here the situation is inverse!
The IAF also wanted the Kaveri project delinked from Tejas programme.
Good. Navy should join as well.
According to informed sources, members of the Matheswaran team were critical of the French passing off their existing and fully developed ‘Eco’ engine core. This, the team felt, would not give India the engine core design knowledge or even control over it. It also pointed out that the design technology being handed out would take years to come.
We need a JV where we can work for a new engine from scratch. specially engine core. We should keep MCA in mind.
Based on the report, the French offer was put on the backburner with even officials from Snecma stating that the “chapter was closed.” But the IAF for reasons not yet clear, appear to have reversed its stand.
India armed forces are famous for changing the requirements in the middle of a project development.
Rajan^^
Got any evidence that their not testing fighting AESA radar?
What was that? 😮 Its like, “Got any evidence that Iran is not trying to send man to the Jupiter?”
AESA radar is undergoing testing according to one source on sinodefence.
Is that enough for you? We should get away from speculations and wait for proper news or expo.
RajanThere will not be any Indo-Pak war this coming decade. So PAF will be there and good.
Hopefully more economic co-operation between the two countries will make War a costly exercise for both economies and inturn lead to peace negotiations.
😀
If there is no chance of a war then why they need F-16 and Erieye? :p Yes, PAF will be there but the gap is increasing.
RajanIt can be safely assumed that by the time Pakistan gets the FC-20 with AESA, the MKIs will also have an AESA radar.
Have China ever built a phased array radar for a fighter aircraft? Where did you got the information or indication to assume that Pakistan will get J-10 with AESA? MKI already has a huge PESA radar in it.
But you are right the Pakistani strategi of Several squadrons of FC 20/ F 16 52+ and JF 17 to make up numbers should provide enough detterence. (i.e. It will not be a walk in the Park as it is now )
Walk in the park? lol Good one. But by that time IAF will get full network centric warfare capabilities along with many other force multipliers.
RajanWe do not know the configuration of the FC-20 but you certainly seem to be underestimating it. I think it will be superior to the F-16 blk 52 and is surely to come in the next decade. Again technical negotiations are almost over (though not known) but contract not signed, but its going to be better than the current J-10.
If we don’t know configuration of J-10 than how can you say ‘surely’ that it will be superior to F-16 B50/52? I have said that based on certain things like Pakistan first tried to get Gripen when they were ignored, they went for J-10. Second is no other country interested in buying that aircraft who ever have access to a Russian or Western fighter. F-16 B50/52 is the best from PAF.
RajanKaveri engine project is effectively decoupled from the LCA project. Meaning that the LCA MK2 will have foreign engines. This is the status now and nothing is uncertain about it.
Indian Aircraft development will not end with the LCA, there is the MCA and may be other projects down the pipeline and Kaveri can serve them well. 😉
India has much more money to spend on defence projects. There will be three simultaneous development of fighter aircrafts like LCA mk2, FGFA and MCA. Joint ventures will be be great for certain subsystems like engine. Snecma-GTRE JV like Shakti and Vikas engines will be great. Now though joint development of FGFA will get hands on most advanced engine technologies as well. 😎
What is special about Indian conditions – dust? temperature? If US, French, British and Russian engines in the IAF inventory can handle the conditions in India, why should the Eurojet engine encounter problems?
lol
RajanF**ker won’t be bad either. Two F**kers on my tail.
lol.
This thread turning to a great vocabulary
Few more….
Flashback: because it reminds old cold war era days when USSR usually came up with something new…
Family man: because it was jointly developed by many…
Fine arts: because it increased creativity of many…
Fear factor: because it was named as Raptorski…
RajanSo you assume F-16 Block 50/52 is superior then? Well, time will tell I guess..
As for IAF, I dont think you have to worry to mouch about them. At all.
When I said that F-16-50/52 is superior? I said it is the best aircraft in PAF service (atleast for next decade) and the only aircraft that can challenge IAF’s complete air dominance in the region, thats it. Nothing more than challenge! If PAF don’t manage to buy a new generation western fighter (like what happened to Gripen acquisition) than there will be nothing left for PAF in the next decade. They need a fighter that has capabilities to win against much more advanced IAF fighters not just challenging. We did lots of exercises with F-16 50/52 via many countries and will get a hand on the most advanced F-16 ie F-16IN aka Block 70. We know that in its current configuration F-16IN has very rare chance to win the MMRCA contract against EFT, F-18E/F Block-2 or Rafale, now forget PAF Block-50/52! Again IAF is getting array of radars, satellites and above all PAK FA!
RajanLivefist: The Sea Gripen pitch to the Indian Navy
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/12/exclusive-sea-gripen-pitch-to-indian.html
As was reported recently, the Indian Navy has sent out an RFI on a new multirole deck-based fighter. One of the potential contenders is Saab with its little known Sea Gripen. Here’s an official brief along with official photographs of the Sea Gripen by Peter Nilsson, VP Op Capabilities at Gripen:
The Sea Gripen Programme Saab AB has since the beginning of the Gripen programme analysed and discussed a carrier based version from time to time. The first studies go back to the mid-90s. The studies have been initiated due to interest shown by difference countries which see the land based Gripen as their future land based fighter alternative and who also have, or are aiming to, develop carriers within their fleets. One of the main reasons is Gripen’s one of a kind capability to operate from rugged short road strips, which leads to the obvious corollary of “How much re-construction is needed to re-design the Gripen into a carrier based version?”
The basic Swedish Air Force requirements in the original design for securing the capability of short strips operations is very like “carrier based ops”. Qualities like; low landing speed, high pitch and roll authority, high precision glide slope control, high precision landing capability, high sink rate clearance, strengthened airframe etc. are built-in from the beginning.
Add Gripen´s character for active service in field with easy maintenance (engine changes < 1 hour in field, no need for external power etc) makes the “jump” much shorter with Gripen compared to other land-based fighters’ opportunity to transform into a “deck-based” fighter.
The decision to launch the programme within Saab AB was taken in the context of Gripen market opportunities in two nations which are both at the beginning of developing a carrier based capability for their Armed Forces, namely Brazil and India. The Sea Gripen Programme is aimed for naval-/carrier based operations.
A few highlights: The Sea Gripen is a development programme with its origin from the Gripen NG programme. Sea Gripen is aimed for both CATOBAR and STOBAR operations. The main technical re-designs are:
*New undercarriage and nose gear to cope with higher sink rate forces and catapult launches.
*Strengthened air frame in some areas.
*Redesigned arrestor hook
*“Marinazing” of the aircraft (increased requirements on salt water protections, operations in hot and humidity conditions etc.)
All together the re-design will add weight on the airframe which will give an empty weight between 7500-8000 kg. (~400 kg extra weight compare to Gripen NG) Due to its balanced size there are no needs for structural changes like folding wings Sea Gripen will be a very appealing alternative for nations with smaller size carriers. Its well balanced weight/size compare to heavy twin-engine alternatives will allow nations to move from “air defence”- carriers to a concept with strategic capabilities, without a replacement of their carriers. All sensors, avionics and weapons within the Gripen NG programme will be offered in the Sea Gripen.
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