silver foxJohn
What is “the proper order of things” sounds more like an utterance from Queen Victoria than anything else.
silver foxBradburger
Agree or disagree with Dougan, there is considerably more considered opinion and honesty than any of the garbage that flowed from Gove, Johnson etc.
I am not wedded to nor hypnotised by the EU, but throwing our toys and spitting our dummy for the wrong ill-informed reasons is a about as bad as it gets.
silver foxJohn
Your comments regarding “red brick universities” and the folly of “educating the masses” shows a level of ignorance and arrogance that is so typical of out of date right wing thinking, what would you like? back to the master and servant role, education to a decent standard only to those born to the “right” families, the rest to be educated enough to follow orders, but never, ever question.
I am personally disgusted that anyone in the 21st century still has a dinosaur mentality, you certainly have a distinct paranoia in believing that most centres of education are hotbeds of communism and revolutionaries, try thinking a little, obviously the more intelligent and better educated are more likely to question what is done in our name, from whichever political standpoint.
You talk of baying mobsters “rewriting” the past, you want to return to the past, a past visible only in your minds eye, a past that was far from perfect, your wish is probably a past were everyone knew their place and didn’t or couldn’t question anything.
Your claims regarding the “honesty” of Redwood, remember just because someone honestly believes in a cause, a policy or path doesn’t make that right, remember there are plenty of terrorists out there who believe their cause is just and their actions right, before you climb on your high horse I’m not suggesting Redwood is a terrorist, merely illustrating the point.
silver foxJohn
You appear to feel that we (as a country) can go out into the world market and buy all essentials for much less, great, but first we have to earn the income in order to go out and spend on even more imports, it may be strange to you but I am considerably more concerned with the potential stand alone earning power of this country.
Must say if you feel flattered being likened to John Redwood, then you are beyond hope of returning from cloud cuckoo land.
Right whingers are particularly fond of accusing Labour of using the “magic money tree” then Brexiteers must have the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, the Golden Goose and resurrected King Midas.
silver foxAK,
John will just see that as fake news or more “project fear”, the light of reality has not penetrated his domain or thinking.
silver foxJohn
You may come to realise that many of us don’t declare an undying faith in the EU, we do understand that having been sold down the river we have more need than ever to be part (indeed a very important part) of a group.
It is quite true that a good number of us don’t rate any of the financiers as the people we should be in any way dependent on, the sad fact is that we are, you blithely pull the immigration rabbit out of the hat once again, please explain just why immigration from outside the EU has always exceeded immigration from within and frankly immigration from within the EU has always potentially been well within the rules to exert much more control, the immigration has been driven by employers wanting a low wage and readily disposable work force.
This dash to the bottom in pay has created the situation where for too many, life on benefits is a better option than some zero hour, minimum wage, part time, seasonal, fake self employed job, in the Tory mind this translates as benefits too high, it never occurs to them that benefits are balanced by the income needed by claimants to live, too many working people are dependent on benefits just to survive, this should not be the case.
You claim the British market is too big to ignore, if this country and it’s people aren’t earning, there won’t be a big market.
Sadly our country is in a poor state, in no position to take on the world in trade and manufacturing, our trade deficit is widening even with the falling value of sterling, which Brexiteers spun as good news as supposedly this would make our exports cheaper on the world market, this simply hasn’t happened for the very simple reason that imports are costing even more.
We need desperately to get our own house in order before launching into such a major change, or are you quite happy to be a free, independent, but broke little group of islands just of the coast of Europe.
silver foxTrekbuster
I get a distinct impression that most of us are wasting our time with John, he is so infused with Tory dogma he won’t see what is happening until he or his family are personally involved.
A little stirrer for him, Brexit or remain is all about the future, a little proposal, when any or no deal is finally concluded another public vote should be taken with those over 70 excluded, that would also take me out, so not just self interest.
silver foxAlongside that, house repossessions at an all time high, families in temporary accommodation at an all time high more homeless on the streets than ever, food banks struggling to cope supplying WORKING people, in work benefits continues to rise, housing benefit (a direct subsidy to private landlords) is at it’s highest level.
We all know or at least those who look a little deeper, the quality and reliability of all these jobs, plus of course the system can and does manage to get more and more people temporarily off benefits, that doesn’t automatically mean these people have paid employment, more likely doing useless, meaningless courses, between benefits, or sanctioned after some prat decides that having one leg means you are fully fit for any job.
silver foxJohn
We have long lost this freedom you so wish to reclaim, it isn’t the EU we are in hock to, it’s the financiers, the sell off of just about everything to any bidder, it will make little difference what our government do, until someone has the courage to take back and run essential services for the benefit of the people of this country, to block foreign takeovers without cast iron (probably financial) guarantees that companies when bought up do not then vanish abroad, yes our forefathers fought and died for freedom, that freedom has been sold.
I have no doubt you are well aware of the assorted companies trading and profiting in this country, our government keeps promising to deal with this, yet the only European organisation taking them on is the EU, perhaps we have need of mutual support? certainly there are aspects of the EU which are not to our taste, but we can’t influence this at all after Brexit and to believe that decisions taken in Europe will not affect us is incredibly naive. Think about it any decisions taken on manufacturing/quality standards we will have to conform to, or simply not trade with any EU country, that’s just one aspect.
In your little world, “the unlimited prize of national freedom” is worth any financial sacrifice, sounds more like Che Guevara or some other Marxist revolutionary, I’m fairly sure supporting Communism isn’t your aim.
silver foxJohn,
Whats this sovereignty restored b######t, it is many years since GB led the world militarily, financially or industrially, much shouting from Brexiteers about British industry trading with world etc; etc;
Harsh fact, it is many years since British companies had subsidiaries in other countries, now “British” companies are more likely to be foreign owned or merely subsidiary to foreign companies. We as a country have a diminishing number of assets, particularly when we have a government determined to sell or give what few we do have, foreign investment is trumpeted by Tories particularly as “good” news, when it fact that is the sale of our sovereignty, leaving the EU won’t do a damn thing about that.
silver foxJohn
Your comment that “The country is almost absurdly prosperous” sounds great, we can all relax in our wealth and prosperity.
BBC 6 o’clock news, inflation up, productivity down, economic growth down, many areas of GB experiencing falling house prices, sales falling off because many can’t afford to sell the house they are in right now due to negative equity, the Bank of England toying with interest rate rise as a counter to inflation, this move is inflationary in itself, what it usually does is cut domestic borrowing and spending, right now I don’t see that as a help.
Mind you in your cozy world this is probably fake news, much of this stems from the Brexit decision and the uncertainty of how it will all pan out, remember when the more rabid Brexiteers claimed the Remain campaign was “project fear”, looks like the Remainers were closer to the truth and we haven’t left yet.
silver foxJohn
I have already questioned this vision of high employment, new car sales are down nationally, house building and sales are slowing certainly away from London and the South, some sectors are doing OK, but we are seeing more and more industry and business edging their bets on investment until we get some clarity on Brexit, from my previous post regarding the Vauxhall plant, bear in mind that the plant is now owned by PSA in other words the Peugeot/Citroen group, they have said that future work at the Vauxhall plant will depend on Brexit deal and productivity, currently due to investment and modernisation the Peugeot plant in France is outstripping production from the Vauxhall plant, would make it very easy to pull out of Ellesmere Port altogether.
Hate the rather gloomy post, but I’m not blind or deaf either.
silver foxJohn
Trotting out this constant Labour spends the money, Tories make it, is a load of tosh and you know it, our country is in a poorer financial state than ever even after all the “diligent austerity measures” from the Tories, guarantee to get some Tory devotee screeching “employment figures are at their highest” yet what jobs are all these people doing? they sure as hell aren’t all in well paid jobs, more likely part of the “gig” economy, temporary contracts, zero hour contracts, bogus self employed contracts, in fact any damn job which avoids employer responsibility.
You might also have noticed during the last few days job cuts totalling some 1,400, plus 100s of other jobs linked to BAE and the Vauxhall factory in Ellesmere Port, these are all skilled or semiskilled jobs with decent earnings, to be replaced with what I ask?
The government has not taken up the opportunity to replace the aircraft used by the Red Arrows, they are still using the Hawk MK1 when surely they should be showcasing the latest derivative, it has even been mentioned that when the Red Arrows fleet is due for replacement in 2020, the government will look at suitable aircraft at the time, is this code for buying foreign for the RAF’s display team? now that would be the final insult and the end of military aircraft construction in the UK.
silver foxJohn
The responsibility lies with the scum who attacked this young girl and those who clearly took advantage of her distressed state, say too much about the sad state of our country than whether young people male or female need escorts for their safety.
silver foxJohn
I feel that whether anyone voted to stay or leave, the current impression of politicians wandering around in ever diminishing circles is a worry, we have a government supposedly working for the good of this country and they can’t make their collective minds up as to how to achieve this, now I couldn’t care less if the Tories do self destruct, I do care if they do it while supposedly running the country, in the midst of probably the biggest change in decades.
This concept of “pack our bags, upsticks and walk away” will definitely have repercussions, personally I don’t think beneficial ones, not just with the EU, but with efforts to expand worldwide trade, after all who wants to set up as a trading partner with a country prepared to walk out of contracts and/or deals and ignore any commitments?
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