No ‘of course’ about it

Making up statistics doesn’t ever strengthen your argument.

Moggy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9143983/Graphic-Fall-in-public-sector-employment-masked-by-private-sector-growth.html

Yes looks good that way, but 59,000 of these “new” jobs are part time, very often short term contracts, (courtesy BBC news), if anything that would represent a fall in full time private sector jobs.

Now I have no idea were you live, but in the North of England jobs are being shed faster than hair off a Labrador, posting on an aviation forum surely you are aware of the jobs gone from the aviation industry alone.

Just to give a quick insight, Jaguar Land Rover announced a plan to increase production creating 1,000 new jobs, they had 5,700 applicants before the plan started, I believe that figure passed 11,000 before they closed the applications.

My argument with the Tory austerity plan making savings is not as true as we are told, jobs have been chopped from NHS, net result agency staff have to brought in at much greater expense to cover essential staff, savings?

Border control, we all know whats going on there, again shuffling staff and now recruiting again, savings?

Lets not forget reality, all public sector workers are paid ultimately by the tax payer, but those workers are themselves tax payers both direct and indirect, job gone probably some level of redundancy which is a one off payment, plus benefit payments, or should these people be left to starve, the actual saving is nothing like the figure that ministers dish out.

Bearing in mind that many of the job losses are among lower earners, in many cases the debit column has just been moved to another sheet, still paid by the tax payer, but with no work in return.

Jobs lost in the private sector, the effect is even worse because that produces just an increase on the debit sheet, we need growth in the economy in order to produce the income which in turn will enable us to pay our debts, simply cutting and more cutting kills both sides, or are we in some lunatic dash to the bottom.

Advice from Sergeant to new recruits on gunnery range,
Remember when the enemy gets within range, so are you.

Added to notes for bomber crews.
It is not a good idea to bale out above the people you’ve just dropped bombs on.

From an ex RAF pilot’s reminiscing, young trainee pilot, first solo, supposed to just do circuit and land, decides to take a wider excursion for the joy of flying solo, gets lost, ground control are frantically trying to locate this guy and guide him back home, exchange between tower and pilot, “what was your last positive position” answer “when I was cleared for takeoff”.

Said pilot last seen piloting a wheelbarrow, sadly without wings.

I think ‘spending money to destroy jobs’ is a little harsh. 😀

This is one area we definitely do disagree on, Tory philosophy has always been to downgrade or eradicate ordinary jobs for ordinary people.

You are fixated with public sector jobs and the “we can’t afford syndrome”, right now many public sector jobs have been reduced to the point were the service can no longer function, Border/immigration control has been cut to the point were it can no longer cope, transferring staff from Manchester to Heathrow as a quick fix and now a recruitment drive, of course it doesn’t occur to anyone that trained staff were in place before some prat decided they weren’t needed.

Saw some figures from hospitals on the cost of hiring bank staff to fill shortages, very often the same people who were laid off, the cost per hour for a nurse through an agency is 5 times the rate of an NHS nurse, good economics :confused:.

Plus of course it isn’t only public sector shedding jobs, private sector, far from growing is losing jobs almost as fast.

You are correct that there is a lack of confidence throughout the UK, wonder were the lack of confidence comes from?, it couldn’t possibly be our beloved MP and his sidekick Osborne who just aren’t trusted, it couldn’t be that every damned thing they say or do turns out to be anything from unwise, unjustified to outright lie.

The Tories have learned nothing since Thatcher, in fact the present gang are even worse, one thing they haven’t woke up to is that unlike in Thatcher’s day many things did not come to light as quickly as now nor do cover ups work as well as they once did.

For me our current administration is arrogant, ignorant and worst of all incompetent.

Any government at the moment needs the support and understanding of the general public, this government at the moment would certainly lose a vote of no confidence from the electorate.

One thing for certain the austerity measures far from reducing the deficit and improving the economy appear to be having a totally opposite effect.

Then we get to see Osborne trotting out the latest excuse for his economic failures, just from memory we have had the weather, twice, the royal wedding, the Japanese tsunami, Euro problems, an assortment of disturbances in far flung countries, while these various events may have had some effect when is this buffoon going to realise that to parrot an upset football crowd “you don’t know what you’re doing” applies to him.

Well, you’ve clearly nailed your colours to the mast! 😀

Yes I have as you say nailed my colours to the mast, but what really saddens me, this is not because I believe that Labour politicians or governments are so good, but because the Tories are so much worse.

Cynical old sod that I am, have seen Tories in action far too many times, vested interest, supporting the few has always been their position.

Too many believe their cry of supporting wealth creators, that is a lie, Tories support wealth takers who don’t give a monkeys how or were the profit comes from.

Having said that, you correctly stated that Labour were copping some flak when funding to the NHS was still increasing, please explain then just how it can possibly be acceptable for cuts to the NHS when clearly there was still improvement needed.

You are also correct in your assertion that money is at the root of all, but to repeat, any government is spending our money and like many people I feel that our current government are making a hash of their spending plans, spending money to destroy jobs does not sound like good or sensible business, certainly not to me at any rate.

OK

Try any book by Patricia Cornwell, I have about twenty of her books in my case not read a poor one yet, crime and pathology the theme.

Any of the Cross series of books by James Patterson crime and detection.

Authors I would recommend Val McDermid (wire in the blood just one of her books), John Grisham, Michael Crichton and even for something light, aviation based but pure fiction, try Dale Brown or Tom Clancy, bit like John Wayne in jet planes but easy going.

I’m also concerned that you seem to be advocating a high level of government control over the private sector; within reasonable employment laws shouldn’t private firms be allowed to hire and fire who they want?

Firms should be able to employ the right people of course.

What I am wholeheartedly opposed to are these fake self employed contracts, a practise becoming more and more widespread, there are “consultancy” companies who specialise in that particular fiddle, gang master labour which abuses workers, usually foreign and rides rough shod over most employment rights, the false student fiddle, foreign workers enrolled as students, a company purports to support their stay in return for a limited amount of work, students are also allowed to undertake some paid work in order to fund a life style of sorts, net result for example, the entire workforce of one company went off by bus on a Friday evening to a language course lasting about 2 hours, the rest of the week they are working full time, this is not uncommon.

This government is also looking to reduce workers rights by extending the period in work before unfair dismissal comes into effect, quite happy to see no hours and short term contracts which never last long enough for workers to qualify for holidays or sick pay schemes and yet the same workers are almost always simply re-employed on yet more short term contracts, in other words the job is actually permanent and full time but workers never achieve that position, no hours contracts, these allow the employer to vary the working hours of any employee at will without prior notice or discussion.

Reasonable employment laws I would love to see and see them enforced from both sides, no chance with this government.

Of course being Tories, this government is resolutely anti-union, any hint of a dispute is always selfish unions, never unfair or unreasonable demands from employers, that employer being very often the state anyway.

Once again with jobs in short supply too many employers feel they have the whip hand and can abuse worker’s pay and conditions with impunity and with support from this god awful government.

Fortunately not all employers fit this scenario, but there are too many who do.

I hate to think how long ago it is since I read Fate is The Hunter, still a good read.

Continuing the aviation theme a little more modern selection.

Joint Force Harrier by Commander Ade Orchard RN
Ark Royal by Mike Rossiter
Phoenix Squadron &
Vulcan 607 &
Storm Front by Rowland White
Apache Dawn by Damien Lewis (no it’s not cowboys and indians)
Empire of the Clouds by James Hamilton Paterson
Fighter Pilot by Paul Richey
I Sank the Bismark by Lieutenant Commander John Moffat with Mike Rossiter

Does the population have any moral duty to look after themselves health-wise; drinking under the recommended limits, not smoking, not taking illegal drugs, not getting obese through overeating and taking some exercise?

Personally I don’t see that any government has any ‘moral’ problem with providing free universal healthcare…

…the problem is convincing the voters that they need to pay (taxes) for it.

There are many out there whose problems are to a great deal self inflicted, the bone of contention here is far more this governments attempts to involve the private sector in the NHS, I will even agree that there are some out and about who frankly barely deserve the help they get, but who are we to be judge and jury.

The NHS does need some restructure, but introducing a level of profit taking into a service business can never improve that service, it merely becomes another cash flow stream for the money men.

The financial institutions used to invest in business, at times putting their money at risk taking their profits from the success of the business, now it appears investors want safe targets with guaranteed returns and profits, best of all an essential service which the general public can’t do without and will just have to put up and shut up.

For me private business should provide the things we want, the state should fund or control the things we need.

Gifting private business any monopoly in essential services is financial suicide for the customer.

As far as paying for services, remember the government distributes our money, it would do well to remember that.