tomwardFrom H&H website
Motorcycle Auction
Entry to the Motorcycle auction is by Pocket Guide only, which admits two people. The Pocket Guide is free of charge to those registered in advance on our mailing list or £10 on the door.
Viewing in Hangar T2
Monday 12th October from 12pm to 6pm
Tuesday 13th October from 10am
Sale in Airspace Conservation Hall
Tuesday 13th October at 1pm
View Motorcycle Entries
Motor Car & Automobilia Auction
Entry to the Motor Car auction is by Premium Catalogue only, which admits two people. The Premium Catalogue is £30 on the door or is available to order from our head office for £35 inc. UK postage.
Viewing in Airspace Conservation Hall
Tuesday 13th October from 10am to 5pm
Wednesday 14th October from 9am
Sale in Airspace Conservation Hall
Automobilia – Wednesday 14th October at 10.30am
Motor Cars – Wednesday 14th October at 12pm
– See more at: http://www.classic-auctions.com/15/section.aspx/430#sthash.Vg3tuuKO.dpuf
tomwardHas anyone bought the latest book by Tom Neil?
I didn’t see any at Duxford to flick through, like most people I usually preview in shops,buy on Amazon .
Further contributing to the downfall of local shops and museum support meaning there one day won’t be any stock in such shops or the ability to carry out such ‘previews’ – but I’ve commented on here before I’m old fashioned and this is off topic!
I was given the Silver Spitfire book for Christmas this year which covered his later war career and was a very interesting read.
tomward‘Streaming media’ blocked by company firewall, consider yourselves lucky you can see it at all 🙂
Boultbee twitter feed not exactly up to date either
tomwardIt didn’t sell.
Seems someone else isn’t sure of it’s provenance
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22725/lot/352/
Saleroom notices
Please note that we have been informed of another claimant to this car’s identity. This claim is disputed by the current owner. A metallurgist report commissioned by the owner is available for inspection. Accordingly, Bonhams are unable to categorically verify this Lot’s catalogued provenance
tomwardI agree entirely, I’ve had chance to play with telemetry systems from Indycars – well the latest ones available circa 2000 when at university and they are fantastic. Even the more basic ones in the rally cars I’ve co-driven had some pretty nifty features. Being able to use a boring machine to tunnel within 1000s of an inch is also a wonder of the modern age meaning costly corrections wouldn’t then have to be budgeted into the job which would have been necessary before.
My point however, was I don’t buy into the whole reliance on technology. An experienced pilot can tell when a warning gauge or a ‘funny feeling’ is telling him/her something is wrong because many of us have an affinity with the mechanical device we are operating. Particularly on old technology which doesn’t need a computer to operate it in the first place.
We don’t know what went wrong in this case and I’m not trying to conjecture. I also agree that having a modern warning system telling you fractions of water in the fuelling system or similar would potentially be helpful but a pre-flight check will also pick up something similar. A fault once airborne detected by a computer system or a warning light or gauge is likely to still have the same effect.
tomwardI’m not an aviation expert but there is no reason it couldn’t be done. Any engine can be operated using electronic systems with an ECU capable of finding faults and recording data. If a basic four cylinder shopping car engine can operate in such a way there is no reason something more complicated can’t be done. I would imagine the issue would be integrating it with existing fuelling systems already on the aircraft to which there would be considerable cost implications and I would imagine certificates of airworthiness would need reviewing.
In reality though I can’t see it justifying the cost. An experienced pilot will know when there is a problem and can identify such problems as and when they arise and what to do about it (such as this off airport landing). The rest would be resolved when the engine is stripped and inspected, such inspections to the trained eye will tell the engineers exactly what the fault was and how it can be resolved.
Motor racing telemetry systems are used to gain an edge against the competition or to ensure compliance with the rules (or try to kep the fans interested), road car warning systems are used to prevent an uneducated and un-interested car owner proceeding when there is a serious mechanical fault. In an old aircraft I would think most pilots have at least a basic mechanical knowledge that would prevent them putting the engine at any more risk with old fashioned mechanical sense and instrument gauges than any computer system would need to tell them.
Or perhaps I’m old fashioned…
tomwardHello everyone,
I am attending Goodwood again this year and I am interested in this truly historic MG and I am seriously considering entering into the bidding. During my research I found this thread, so thank you very much for the information. However, other web research that I have undertaken on this car in the last few days has left me decidedly confused.
The MG “T” Register, a branch of the respected MG Car Club, has a register of cars available on their website and the Bader car (GPC 671) is listed on their website as SCRAPPED.
A Google search for “Douglas Bader MG TA” also brings up another page for the Bader car from an “MG T-Types database” website. That page also gives further information that the Bader car was written off by a previous owner in an accident and the chassis was subsequently “sawn up and scrapped”.
If Club experts like the MG Car Club are saying the Bader car was written off and scrapped by a previous owner then what exactly is the car being sold at auction? I am eager to bid but at the sort of price estimated one needs to be sure that one has the genuine article.
Can anyone assist with more information?
The T-register is the source of the information as to it’s original owner so they do know about it. It’s more likely the record hasn’t been updated to show the car is back on the road. I would suggest an e-mail or a phone call directly to the T-register. The historian or DVLA rep may be able to help. Contact details are here
http://www.tregister.org/recall_committee.php
Also, have a look at the T-Register news July 2014 edition in which my father (the editor) wrote about this car attending a show as mentioned in my earlier post. I should point out his information is nothing more than a brief chat with the owner/restorer and not a full study into the history of his car.
http://www.tregister.org/trn_archive.php
The car certainly isn’t 100% original as it was bought as a chassis and a box of parts. Exactly how many of those were used for the rebuild or where they came from originally is open to conjecture. Hence my scepticism of it’s estimated value earlier. I would however say if the chassis number matches the production records and the engine number matches that given on the makers plate then that is probably as close to confirmation of it’s originality as anyone will get. The rest is down to the owners interpretation of a restoration. Potentially (and I’m not saying this is the case here) the wooden tub which is often subject to rot and body panels could be considered spare parts like any other item bolted to the chassis.
I’d buy someone’s unfinished restoration project for my own pleasure, not because someone famous owned it.
‘Scrapped’ in a classic car sense doesn’t mean a car bearing that information will never be seen again!
tomwardThat’s some mark-up by Bonhams. A decent TA price range starts at about £23,000 for a usable example up to £47-49,000 for a fully restored concours example.
(And black never was a popular colour…now, if it was red, or maybe British Racing Green…)
Oh and roundel police alert – MG never used British Racing Green as a factory colour on the T-Types – although there are various interpretations of exactly what BRG actually is!
tomwardProvenance is everything.
Moggy
Even with provenance I think that is a rather optimistic value. Bader only owned it 8 years and four of those were spent in POW camps.
The Mail article is relatively correct for once but they seem to have got their information from a more reliable source
http://www.justbritish.com/raf-hero-sir-douglas-baders-mg-ta-at-auction/
My father has a 1954 MGTF and writes for the MG Car club magazine so met the car and restorer last year. It was originally going to be restored as a trials special but when they found out it’s history not returning it to original spec seemed wrong.
tomwardCAA bolting the stable door after the horse has fled (or been killed in a totally unnecessary display accident!). Not before time! The pleasure of a few, by a few, should not hazard the many. If it’s all stopped (even if by ‘knee-jerk’ politicians) then the two ‘fews’ have only themselves to blame. I’m old enough to remember the DH110 crash – and that was a new aircraft.
HTH – but I know it won’t!
Resmoroh
Or taking a sensible precaution before they are presented with the full facts of the incident. Many people enjoy airshows and will continue to do so. If this allows time to make a few changes to what is in general a very good safety record in this country then so be it. I’d rather see an aircraft carry out a sedate flypast than see it grounded because it can’t raise funds from air displays.
I take part in another hobby which could be considered high risk – rallying and an incident last year highlighted the risks. Changes have been made following a thorough investigation and new regulations sent out to all event organisers but the sport and hobby enjoyed by many was not banned. So lets avoid kneejerking altogether
tomwardI can see their point from an outsiders/non aviation interested perspective. Clacton and Southend are very successful and there were some great photos on this website from Eastbourne last week
However, not all venues are like Shoreham and some are surrounded by open countryside where only those in ‘naughty fields’ are in the wrong place should something go wrong. I’m no expert and nor do I hold an opinion on the reasons for this accident or the suitability of Shoreham as I’ve never been there.
It seems these days politicians need to say something which creates a further kneejerk action/response by the press rather than waiting for the report carried out by the experts. Unfortunately it is as pointless as conjecture on the internet by anyone who is not involved and anyone with knowledge of the incident is better spending their time giving their info to the AAIB than the general internet or press.
tomwardTo make it anything near marketable the producers may have little choice. A faithful, well CGI’d production of a film of a single operation in WW2, dog or no dog, won’t yield the megabucks required to satisfy the investors and distributors.
Then in my honest opinion based on what I know of his work, Peter Jackson is unlikely to bother making it and we’ll all be saved from watching it.
tomwardI’ve not read all 14 pages of this thread – only the bits merged in recently – so apologies if this has been said before but so far this is all based entirely on hearsay and I personally think we should allow Mr Jackson a little leeway.
He amassed millions more fans in making the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies and created a whole new army of fans who read and re-read the original Tolkein works as a result of the movies. His research into the books and their backstory was bordering on the obsessive. My wife is a huge Tolkein fan and she was blown away by the movies – I had never read the books or seen the films until I met her but as we have the extended edition boxsets with nine hours of extras in each movie you can see the attention to detail that went into them. Everyone I’ve spoken to who loved those books as a child admires the sensitivity with which he handled the movies. Although most agree the Hobbit was a bit stretched!
Yes, some things were changed and made more ‘Holywood’ or amended to fit the screenplay but that has to be done because books are all about painting a picture in a kids imagination which will be different on the big screen – and it was done with the original Dambusters film too.
I grew up clutching my fathers old worn out paperback of the Dambusters – the original film is one of the first films I remember watching, it was certainly the first war movie I ever watched and I can now quote it line by line. I was born in 1979, 20+ years after the movie was made. Special effects moved a long way in that time (look at Star Wars in comparison) and they have moved even further now. CGI will be used but used with consideration it can work really well.
Dambusters was my inspiration and fostered a love of aviation which continues to this day and I can’t wait to see what Peter Jackson can do with it. It may be ‘Holywood’ but I think of any director he can apply some consideration to his market audience. He may not be directly hands on this time but he won’t want it ruined.
All that and I didn’t mention the dog – phew!
tomwardI suppose the corporate hospitality brings in money, and is sometimes a way of saying thank you to investors.
It used to (maybe still does) happen at test matches. Where half of the seats were empty in the afternoon, as
visitors were having a late lunch, and had no interest in the cricket.
See also Wembley the next time there is an England match on. The second half kick off is always filmed with the camera looking directly across at the best seats in the place, nearly all of which are still empty as the hospitalites (new word) all finish their complimentary canapés in front of a TV provided so they don’t miss any action.
tomwardAlthough sadly it is unlikely to happen, I think that doubling the price and halving the number of tickets would be a great idea. Rather like Goodwood, where the price for a three-day ticket is around £145 I believe. ‘The right crowd, and no crowding’
Although it does price out some of us who would want to be there. I don’t consider myself in the upper echelons of society nor do I want to go to be seen but Goodwood price means I would have to give up two or three airshows and cricket matches (other sporting events are available) in the year to justify the sheer cost of it. Still it was the camping price at Goodwood that really put me off!!
The number of people at Duxford on Sunday was manageable but as stated elsewhere I think most saw the weather forecast and went Saturday. One downpour and a few no-shows didn’t spoil my day out though.
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