Yes Andy, but who wants to go to court over it?
No thanks!
The protection of Military Remains Act 1986 is entirely silent on the issue of ownership or title. The MoD merely CLAIM, as a condition of the licence, that ownership rests with them. This conveniently overlooks/overturns the fact that in the 1970’s (I still have the letters!) the MoD said they no longer owned or had any interest in these wrecks and had “abandoned all claim to them in favour of the landowners where they lay.” In the case of RAF wrecks there is also the issue that they have been formally “Struck off Charge”. I also contend that the MoD’s claim to German wrecks in the UK as “captured enemy property that has been surrendered to the Crown” is no longer the case. The German Embassy in London now say that such wrecks have reverted under international treaty to “…the Federal German Government as the legal successor to the Third Reich” and I have letters from the USAF stating that all aircraft (USAF/USAAF) lost before 1962 are no longer the property of the US Govt and they no longer have any claim on them. This is directly and wholly at odds with what the MOD here say, but they have a vested interest in making us believe what is convenient for them. Certainly, the position relative to German and US wrecks is as described above, and the MOD claim on RAF aircraft lost in WW2 is both tenuous and untested. I suspect they would have great difficulty now in establishing ownership in a Court of law, given the past history of this matter, statements they have previously made, laws on abandonment etc etc. Just because the MOD says thats the way it is doesn’t mean it really is. But they would like us all to think so! Andy Saunders
Now THAT’S a stuka!
Do any of our Greek friends know what the plan is for her immediate conservation?
Wow thanks for that.Looking forward to the paint job she has after she has been given a wash down.
Hi Paul
I am ashamed to say I cannot find the other pics on the website – I don’t think my Greek is up to it.
Can you post a link please?
Dave M2,
The HAF website shows photos of a (correctly identified) Ju52 being recovered on “Oct 3rd 2006” – are you sure they are recovering the ’87 too, as there is no mention of any other current ongoing recoveries?
I hope they are lifting the Stuka too, as the ’52 looks to be in fairly good condition, so the Stuka might hopefully be similarly intact apart from actual impact damage…..
Paul F
Thanks Dave
Where was your Battle built? Sometimes part numbers can vary depending on manufacturer…
Hi Elliot , as far as i can see all Battle part numbers begin with PD , PA or PC letter prefix , all the cockpit/enginemount tubing parts carry PD letter prefix other cockpit parts carry the PC , PA prefix for example , PD3359/5/BR693 is a tube end fitting used to attach cockpit frame to the fuselage , PC3012 X182 is a casting part of a bell crank for the controls.
Hope that helps
cheers dave
Dave – thanks. What I would really love to see is info on Fairey Battle numbers. You must be quite the authority on this! Anything to add from this point of view?
Cheers
Hi guys here a few more .
32 B24 Lib.
16 Lookheed Hudson
28 Catalina
75 Curtiss Hawk 75 ( P 36 )
87 Curtiss P 40 kittyhawk
106 P 51 MustangSome part numbers are common to more than one version of a/c for instance late model P40s still had some parts with 75 prefix from the P 36
Some for the aussies
01 to 02 CAC Wirraway
03 CAC Wackett
12 to 13 CAC Boomerang
126 DAP Beaufortcheers dave
Hi Creaking door – I am not the person to answer your query but I would have thought someone out there would be able to.
Does anybody know what the ‘S’ prefix on Bristol part numbers signifies?
For example SFB59109 which is a Ransom & Marles bearing from the reduction gear of a Hercules engine.
I know what the ‘F’ and ‘B’ stand for and thought that ‘S’ may stand for ‘shadow’ production by others than Bristol but then why mark a bought-out component in this way unless Bristol made their own (unlikely)?
Also do Bristol airframe components carry the ‘FB’ prefix or is it just their engines?
Be gentle…..it’s my first post.
WA$.
Hello Andy – welcome to the forum.
It looks odd Michael – I have never seen one like that before. Hopefully one of the bigger brains on the forum will know.
Thanks TT
I’m sure i’ll turn one up somewhere…
A very rare ebay bargain…. 🙂
Thanks Benno.
If you could post that pic you mentioned i’d be grateful. Any idea if I can get a replacement switch for the grip? I would like to find one if possible.
I would have to go along with you there Mark.
One word…. Gutted
Value.
It depends who you are, where you are and what your aspirations for the B-17 are.
To a scrap dealer it will be ‘X’, to a local PNG museum it will be ‘Y’. What you can guarantee is that to a US party that wants to get it back in the air, their accountant will, if experienced in these fields, value it as a minus number, ‘-Z’, because after all the money has been totted up and spent, the selling price of the aircraft when initially flying again is unlikely to exceed the factored spend over say five years at commercial labour rates.
A dealer however could put a different value on it. Establish what the market selling price is for the recovered ‘as is’ airframe sitting on the docks at Galveston, Texas, clear of customs and all charges. Factor in a profit, factor in a risk element, add to these two figures all the spend to get it to Galveston and compare with the landed selling price…and there is the value.
In this latter case I would estimate it at about £2,500 on the right side. 😉 🙂
Mark
Nope – she went to Germany intact. No strippage occured.
wasnt she stripped out by someone before it got to germany?
No ill feelings from the owners Peter. They were both agreeable with what happened to it and it all worked out well in the end. It’s unfortunate that other people kept trying to stick their oar in.
Nice to hear it has gone to a good home.
Do a search on this forum for Bernie salter cockpit
Lots of politics and ill feellings about the fate of that cockpit.
It was indeed Dresden Alan – you are correct.
Tom
I sent you a PM. I will be happy to look into it for you.
Cheers
Mr Tweed,
Yes our old boy the rear gunner was reticent about doing a talk on his experiences at the club, he’s a very modest gentleman with the accent on gentleman!
I managed to get hold of his flight log book and photocopied it on to overhead projector slides, the log book showed his first flight through to his last and when I asked him questions about the slides that I put up at the club the information he could recall was amazing, an hour and a half flew by that evening.
Just the other week I mentioned the fact a German aircrew shot down in 1945 were buried in Scampton churchyard, he asked me to check up to see if it was in March of that year. Lo and behold it was….. my friend told me he and the crew had to put down at Waddington instead of their own base because intruders had followed them back from the raid over Germany. The landing lights were only kept on for a short while as soon as their wheels hit the runway they were extinguished.
That was not the end of it they had to remain in their aircraft with an engine running
so that the Lancaster aircraft guns could complement the bases own anti-aircraft protection.
He remembers seeing streams of tracer from one of the other bases in the area and an aircraft being hit and wondered if this was the crew of the german aircraft that now lie in Scampton cemetery.
I had photographed these german gravestones and the dates matched up perfectly.I think he is 83 years old now but he is as active as a man 20 years younger, I feel honoured to know this gentleman and to count him as a friend.
Regards
Tom
Nice pics & an interesting website Merlin
Just thought i’d mention that the magazine remains on the wellington section are actually from the camera film magazine.
Looking forward to seeing more pics!
Thought some of you might like a look at the recovery pictures of a mark 1 mustang taken at the weekend.
http://www.acia.co.uk and click latest news. there are three pages of pics.
enjoy.