insomnia.delhiMy guess: if India signs the CISMOA (those acronyms…!) then either SH or F-16 will win this — however if they don’t sign then I actually doubt the US will win — then I think it’s between the Typhoon (if they prefer a more expensive twin-engine solution) or Gripen NG (if they go for the more cost-effective alternative).
Rafale and Mig-35 are outsiders, for different reasons I doubt they have much chances even if the CISMOA does not get signed.
If Gripen satisfies all technical requirements (i think it does), and has the lowest acquisition and life time costs (i think it should), its a winner (unless they go against the defence procurement policy and keep it a secret).
Just imagine if after all this years of MMRCA this, MMRCA that, there are irregularities found by the finance ministry or the Comptroller and Auditor General of India and the tender canceled after a plane is chosen.
😀
And they have to start another tender after it.
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Eurofighter goes with the same swashplate radar as seen with SELEX Galileo’s RAVEN AESA
http://www.eurofighter.com/fileadmin/web_data/downloads/efworld/ef_world_3-2010web.pdf
As the company making Gripens radar and leading the eurofihter AESA radar are the same, will the performance of these two radars be similar? (same Tx/Rx modules in the radar along with other electronics backend)?
insomnia.delhiThey are taking out all the communications gear from the aircrafts, just put whatever we use in the rest of the fleet in them.
* AN/ARC-222 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio System (SINCGARS) – Manufacured by Magnovox and administered by the US Air Force
* KV-119 IFF Digital Transponder (Mode 4 Crypto Applique) – Manufactured by Raytheon and administered by the US Air Force
* TACTERM / ANDVT Secure Voice (HF) Terminal – Administered by the US Air Force
* VINSON KY-58 Secure Voice (UHF/VHF) Module – Administered by the US Air Force
* Finally, the Rockwell-Collins AN/ARC-210(V) SATCOM Transceiver’s COMSEC/DAMA embdedded RT is replaced with an RT that has no COMSEC/SINCGARS
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/10/exclusive-no-cismoa-heres-what-theyre.html
insomnia.delhiA good chance for Eurofighter Typhoon to prove itself and its own advertisements in the next 2+ weeks ~ RAF Typhoons versus IAF Su-30MKIs / Mirage 2000s / MIG-27 in Indra Dhanush 2010……
😮
what if they end up highlighting the similar role/functions of Eurofighter Typhoon and Su-30MKI.
😀
A new Eurofighter World issue is available at the official website. Nothing really new or ground breaking included. But once again a cheap shot at the US 5th generation.
http://www.eurofighter.com/fileadmin/web_data/downloads/efworld/ef_world_3-2010web.pdf
How many potential sales has F-35 taken away from the Euro Fighter?
insomnia.delhiFGFA to get Military Class GLONASS feeds in real time
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/10/5th-generation-fighter-to-plug-into.html
Is this a part of PAK-FA or a part of a larger GLONASS agreement?
There were some news articles about Russia and India cooperating on the GLONASS project.
insomnia.delhiBut you’re disregarding what he actually says. He does not say that IAC 2 will have EMALS, he says it may. He is saying something is possible, that perhaps it will happen. That is being translated as “It’s certain”.
He is actually expressing an opinion. He is not making a statement of fact.
I do not know how to put this to you more clearly
The current Chief of Naval Stall never said that IAC-2 will have EMALS, neither did he said that it may, or that it is a possibility. He was not expressing an opinion, he stated clearly (in his official responsibility as the chief of naval staff) that the design is to be different and more capable which includes the capability of operating AEW aircraft and tankers (?)
The previous Chief of Naval Staff, now retired, as a retired admiral stated that it (EMALS) is a direction (when it is available) the Indian Navy will prefer to go, some have taken this as a sign that this translate into the IAC-2 design including EMALS (they add the current chiefs statement of the carrier design evolving in capacity and the previous chiefs opinion of the direction IN will go, to reach at this conclusion), which is not correct as he was expressing his opinion (as a retired admiral).
Its like Kitty Hawk mix up.
insomnia.delhiThat possibility certainly cannot be ruled out, especially I do see supply of Air to Ground Ammunitions like PGM’s, Transport Plane as well as various Spare parts and logistical services.
As far as american weapons go, that possibility can only occur when the highest office (that of the President of USA) supports and approves such a transfer.
As far as French and Russian or Chinese military equipment goes, yes that might happen. Then again with France and China Pakistan can just directly order from the host nations (any amount of supply that it can buy).
Agreed, in ’65 and ’71 Arab nations helped, I would not be surprised if this was not forthcoming again, the only question is the form this help would take.
As someone mentioned,stopping all oil to India may actually be more effective then sending a few F-16s…
The oil block only needs to mention that it will stop supplying oil and it will be enough.
The result would be a shift in the Indian view about the regions power play and that will disturb the plans of USA, which will see USA applying pressure on the oil block.
insomnia.delhiWhat about mortar attack? Your purpose is to delay the scramble, not destroy the base.
If this covert force is resourceful enough to reach the airbase, it could just go into the hangers and blow up the planes along with other infrastructure required to support aircraft operations from the airbase.
insomnia.delhiSU-30MKI followed by FGFA (a version of the T-50 PAK-FA)
Indian officials have been invited to F-35 events, however no scope in the AF and none in the Navy till 2020, not unless the plane is inducted with full operational capability, and it is available for sale.
I think the navy should inquire about available delivery schedule for F-35B(as UK is getting out of the type) get the latest tender for naval planes be canceled and the new tender be designed to ensure it is selected. Its a plane that should perform better than Mig-29K in a ocean environment, and provides a STOVL capability, which is much better (IMO) than STOBAR-combining worst of the two worlds STOVL and CATOBAR.
Any military system that USA firms can sell outside of USwill be available, not the exotic stuff like tomahawks and ballistic missiles.
insomnia.delhiAdd up the P-8I, C-17, C-130, MMRCA deals and you have a new market suddenly opening up with so much opportunity and potential.
Saudis are pretty much in their pocket (in terms of weapons), they might buy some British gear, however they know that in that neighborhood when the **** hits the fan they need USA more than USA needs them (In terms of weapons as they are already invested into an infrastructure to sustain current military gear).
insomnia.delhiIndia will buy whatever it wants.
If USA doesn’t allow absolute access to the available technology, plenty of suppliers out there who will, US has nothing special to sell in this tender.
At this point of time the Pakistani conventional war making ability has no way to overcome the gap in numbers and technology that Indian military holds over it and is planning to increase (the money to do so is not there), a 10 billion dollar aid package of previous generation technology spread over half a decade or a decade is not what worries India as long as the enemy states economy is as bad as it is right now. What worries India is planning, funding and training of terrorist elements who actually attack India, and the nuclear question. Still it is a enemy state, and India will do all it can diplomatically to make things difficult for them, be it military aid, economic aid, or just cricket, they will do the same against India.
USA is not a party in the disputes between India and Pakistan (PRC is), their relations with the two nations are independent of the two nations, its not a either-or situation.
As for weapons, France sells to both nations, Sweden does too, Russia is the main supplier of their most numerous to be air-force fighter JF-17’s engine, outside of PRC no one has a polarized view in terms of selling weapons.
insomnia.delhiBut they often are.
UN Ambassador Bush describes the December 10 meeting between Kissinger and the Chinese delegation to the United Nations. While discussing the India-Pakistan crisis, Kissinger reveals that the American position on the issue was parallel to that of the Chinese. Kissinger disclosed that the U.S. would be moving some ships into the area, and also that military aid was being sent from Jordan, Turkey, and Iran. Some of this aid was illegally transferred because it was American in origin. Bush also reports that Kissinger gives his tacit approval for China to provide militarily support for Pakistani operations against India. Bush expresses his personal doubts in the administration’s “Two State Departments thing,” and takes issue with Kissinger’s style, in one instance calling him paranoid and arrogant.
White House, Telephone Conversations between Nixon and Kissinger: These records, in Haig’s words “confirm the president’s knowledge of, approval for and, if you will, directive to provide aircraft to Iran and Jordan” so that these countries will provide aircraft to Pakistan.
Unlike mythical stores of secret missiles and planes(which beat the basic deterrence value and pose questions of reason and sanity), this is the information released by US state department about the situation in 1971, the aid was sent under US pressure.
And there was a response from Soviets.
insomnia.delhiTrue, but if they had a requirement for one, they would make it themselves, and not buy a product from abroad, that is at best average, at worst failed.
Especially not one that is itself made up of foreign parts…..
😀
Average and Fail gets mass production order, and investment into production line and a continuous development program.
What would Win get, freaking laser beams as weapons, PSLV/GSLV attachment capability and space travel uniforms for the pilots.
tis true they would generally buy from within.. but their armed forces seem more willing to take a higher quality foreign version over a lower quality domestic one.. like the interest in French lpds and jewish ucavs.
I don’t think the UCAV puts much though into religion.
The reason why the Dhruv isn’t wanted by the Navy is well-documented by Ajai Shukla: a light-class chopper simply cannot meet the endurance requirements for ASW warfare that are currently handled by 10-12 ton medium-class choppers like the Sea King and Ka-28. It has nothing to do with any deficiences in the platform itself.
You might as well say the reason why the Dhruv is not in Naval service is because it made a pass at the Naval Chiefs daughter, wont change a mans belief.
ALH so bad it can don’t carry a tank to battle.
ALH, more like already late and heavy.
insomnia.delhiMy bet would be on India IF this burden is being sold. It would also depend on how far along plans for the IAC 2 (65 ton?) are. ONce the first ADS is built by around 2015, they could use the expertise to churn out another somewhat quickly (2020). And then top it off with a CVF (direct purchase) plus another homebuilt (in lieu of the 65 tonne IAC 2). Thus you have,
Vikramaditya, IAC 1 & 2 – 35-40 tonnes
2 X CVF (QE type) – 65 tonnes.I base this on two reasons – there have been reports suggesting a 5 carrier force. And secondly, India’s procurement will be correlated to the the expanding PLAN counterparts. And I don’t see the chinese procuring just 1 or 2 carriers in the next 10-15 years.
USS.
The 5 carrier force estimates in my view can only be explained in a post 2020 world, After the eastern and western fleets of the Indian navy have a carrier group each with a total of three carriers. This has been one of the required capability of the IN for a long time, its only now that the GoI can understand and fund it.
5 carriers represent a additional carrier group and that requires other surface and sub-surface vessels along with crew and shore based facilities than are currently planned till 2020, which increases the procurement of any additional carrier by many folds.
That is why a buy till 2020 is just not possible, Once plans till 2020 are realised the IN will have to see the goals that the government wants it to accomplish and if the force requires another carrier group (with 2 carriers) to fulfill them, also the government has to fund the program.
RN and the government gets absolutely nothing from selling the second carrier, Surely a nation with such vast experience can see that a single carrier is not a wise investment.
insomnia.delhiLet me restate my scenario so that we won’t get confused.
REDina captures an island belonging to BLUE Kingdom. In order to defend it, REDina places an S-300 system and some Su-30 along with the regular troops. Can BLUE Kingdom successfully reclaim the island, having the exact capabilities the UK will have at 2015? What are your plans as the blue leader?
Interesting scenario since it probably denies air support on both sides (S-300 and Type 45). What happens if I give the reds some land deployed anti ship missile?
2015, blue will have no carrier, no maritime patrol aircraft, and no fifth generation fighters, not even 4++ generation with AESA (with Su-30 on par or may be above them in several combat performance factors).
While Red will have their own fighters based on the Island, will improve the capacity of the airbase, with S-300 PMU2 and a very good ground based AEW network providing a protective shield for air operations to continue unhampered over the Island(supply of men and material, maritime patrol and AEW planes etc. etc.).
Red can launch a lot of anti ship missiles from coastal batteries, sea and air (more than the any ships air defence missiles) which could be assisted with MPA/AEW aircraft based targeting information (making it difficult for a surface vessel to approach 300kms near shore).
What about several strikes by conventional warhead on a bunch of SLBMs and long range cruise missiles to take out the airfield for a good amount of time?
Followed by strikes from long ranged UAVs and missiles to degrade the air defence capability, and the eurofighters with air refueling attacking any remaining targets? will take a long time and a lot of lives to reach a stage where blue will be able to put boots on the ground, who will by that time no doubt face a well entrenched enemy, and have a lot of casualties.
Might be better to just start hurting the reds mainland with so much damage through submarines and missiles that it becomes impossible to continue with Island occupation.
insomnia.delhiBut that’s ridiculous!
What you’ve quoted is a collection of statements that various options are being explored, including steam catapults & EMALS. From those, one can deduce that EMALS may be fitted, but not that it will. Possibility is being stated as fact, which requires detachment from reality.
Yes that was the purpose, to show you how the opinion has been formed that the second carrier will have EMALS.
A direct quote of the current Chief of Naval Staff should constitute more than an opinion.
However i am confused as to what he means by saying that the second carrier will have a tanker, the Mig-29 and the winner of the second bid (it has to be a tender sent to multiple firms under the current defence procurement policy) will both have refueling pods as an option, the MiG-29 would be able to take off from the Vikramaditya and the IAC-1 as a tanker, i do not think that their will be a separate plane for the tanker role, then again i do not know anything about the project.
The current carriers are capable of operating Russian heli AEW platforms.
“We are re-looking at the design. It won’t be a copy of what we have today,”
”It will be much bigger and capable of operating fighters, AEW (airborne early-warning) aircraft, tankers etc,”
Admiral Varma
As to the EMALS, that comment comes from the previous chief of naval staff, and not in a official position, it could be a opinion on the direction he thinks the Navy will move in future. As you said it is not a indication of EMALS being included into the design of the carrier.
If we were to consider that steam catapults will be included in the design, there will be a lot of consulting services from US firms.
At what stage of the design will the consulting/design work start (will it be a part of the project definition phase)?
What other part of the design will require extensive work?
(i think there will be a need of generating all the steam and sending it to the catapults at the required pressure)
How were the US steam catapults integrated on to the CdG (MN aircraft carrier)? (as a comparison)
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