Yes, but even this was’t done in time ??? (to admit similar to all other current fighters) … and when will the Mk.2 be fylaing … when will it be cerified …. and when will it be in service in substantial numbers ???

Are You sure ?? … If I’m correct – but sorry; I don’t remember the source – it was stated that HAL could currently only deliver 8-12 Tejas per year even if they wanted to produce more.

Deino

.

Some sanity prevailing…

Here is the link

‘Currently we can manufacture 8 aircraft per annum, which is extendable up to 12,’ Rao said at a press conference at the INS Hansa, a naval base in Goa 30 km from here’

http://news.combataircraft.com/readnews.aspx?i=404

The delivering 8-12 units is due to the number of orders of the initial lot, HAL could invest multi million dollars and set up a lot of lines producing the plane, however for a total order of 40 mark I version, that makes no sense at all.
HAL has made plenty of statements about the situations (google the source)

Kind of strange people think that there is some magical problem HAL faces in setting up production lines for the project they have participated in.

India, Russia close to PACT on next generation fighter
Ajai Shukla/New Delhi – Jan 05,2010 00:38 AM

Late last year, a defence ministry delegation to Sukhoi’s flagship aircraft facility in Siberia became the first Indians to set eyes upon the next-generation fighter that is slated to form the backbone of the future Indian Air Force (IAF). In that first meeting, carefully choreographed by Sukhoi, the new fighter, standing on the tarmac waved a welcome to the Indians, moving all its control fins simultaneously.

The effect, recounts one member of that delegation, was electric. The senior IAF officer there walked silently up to the aircraft and touched it almost incredulously. This was the Sukhoi T-50, the first technology demonstrator of what India terms the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Senior defence ministry sources tell Business Standard that — after five years of haggling over the FGFA’s form, capabilities and work-share — a detailed contract on joint development is just around the corner.

The contract, which Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) will sign with Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), will commit to building 250 fighters for the IAF and an equal number for Russia. The option for further orders will be kept open. HAL and UAC will be equal partners in a joint venture company, much like the Brahmos JV, that will develop and manufacture the FGFA.

The cost of developing the FGFA, which would be shared between both countries, will be $8-10 billion (Rs 37,000-45,000 crore). Over and above that, say IAF and defence ministry sources, each FGFA will cost Rs 400-500 crore.

Sukhoi’s FGFA prototype, which is expected to make its first flight within weeks, is a true stealth aircraft, almost invisible to enemy radar. According to a defence ministry official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metre as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.&”

http://wap.business-standard.com/storypage.php?id=5&autono=381718
Amazing article, but no .000000001 of RCS, and su-30 at 20 sq. m., woohaa thats a big fat bird.

Remaining clear of that, its strange the Russian authorities started quoting the RCS figures before the plane was made public and indian MoD officials are telling it to journalists?

The contract negotiations will be interesting.

RCS ~0.5m^2? That could be anything. Frontal? Lateral? Some Overall value? Deliberate, mis-information? Plus, if they found a way to implement plasma stealth, then that should level things out. Time will tell… Well just have to wait…

It could also be wrong
if the journalists and their sources are to be believed, a lot of things could come true.

its meant to show the externally accessible handle that can be used to eject the canopy and extricate a pilot who may be stuck inside (like happened to the F-22 pilot). thats what the RESCUE arrow points to.

Perhaps a sign to point out that once the rescue handle is operated the canopy will come off with an explosion?

[ATTACH]180235[/ATTACH]

What does that sign mean (inside the rectangle)?

the pic is a part of this larger image
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zUe7sq7m3h0/R8TH7yMzRmI/AAAAAAAAADk/FxI7Q6qIigg/s1600-h/P1090802.JPG

According to him, if the European engine maker offers 100% transfer of technology, the price of its bid would shoot up; “Then its bid would not be competitive.”Eurojet has said it would form a joint venture with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd or some private company to fulfill its offset obligation.

GE, which will supply the F-414 engine, is also said to have acquired the approval of the US government for technology transfer for the LCA programme. The two companies that have bid for the $750 million order for 99 engines for Tejas.

Reference :-

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report_tejas-engine-offset-offers-come-in_1322774

Its not like there is any chance of USA allowing GE to sell all the technologies involved in the F-414 engine, esp. as the super hornet is going to be flying for the USN for a long time.

I have always thought that it would have been better for LCA and Indian aviation industry (as a whole) had the LCA been inducted into IAF in its basic form, and subsequent developments would have been done in blocks. However, IAF being the user of an ADA/HAL product (I dont think IAF was actually an active party in its development???) had every right to expect a product at a certain time (whatever time (realistic/unrealistic) they were given by the designers/manufacturers) and ask for any additions if they felt that a certain product (if not provided within the original timeframe) was no longer relevant .

Given the anticipated nature of a war in the subcontinent (Intense and Short), will that be a wise choice for the IAF?

Attrition. When inducted some LCA will crash over there lifetime.

Yes, you are right, capacity will have to be ramped up, and right now this has not been done. Until it has been donw, no large orders can be filled by HAL.

Agreed, you will have to wait and see what decision the IAF make, This is the point I have been trying to make.

I think “successful” will probably be defined as induction into teh air force in signifcant numbers. The IAF has 800+ combat aircraft and ordered 40 LCA so far. I am sure we can agree we still need to wait to see if this is a “success”…

A capacity of 12 planes per year is more than enough, especially for the current 20.

This is the egg and hen debate, there is no physical or monetary problem in ramping up capacity, it will be a welcome step as it will increase employment for the vast number of engineers and technical diploma holders that are appearing on the radar faster than the economy can absorb them. What is lacking are orders for the investment to be made.

Wait indeed, however one can discuss (over tea or on the internet) the points that might make the AF take the decision, no harm in that.

Well until the plane retires, indeed one has to wait.

I am of the opinion that only when in service for a long time, a military equipment can be labelled a success or failure. No use labelling a huge disappointment and under-performer a success just because its mass produced.

At this point with the 20 planes on order and the tender for some 99 engines under way (with two applicants for fulfilling the tender), it is inevitable that the LCA program will churn out between 100~150 planes, however its only when the plane performs in service that the plane can be called a success.

The program however might be successful if it is able to churn out enough planes to justify the initial investment.

I dont doubt many want the current situation to change.

“HAL will try and recruit more people”. I am sure.

They will select an engine. Again I am sure.

However, as you have listed, there are still many variables. The facts I have quoted represent the project as it is now.

Mk1 or MK2. The thing needs an engine. Even when one is selected you will find it will take time to integrate and may throw up a host of probelms.
What if there are massive problems with the new engine?

Would the IAF “pledge its support and order 100+”!?

Okie-Dokie, here is the thing in very simple and logical format:-

The current capacity of 8-12 aircrafts per year is more than enough to meet the order for 20 planes with IOC capability by 2012.

India is running a contract to buy 99 engines, the 99 engines will be used in something called planes. The InAF is part of the team that came out with this tender.

MK-I version flies on a GE engine, and 20 of these planes have completed the IOC stage
http://www.drdo.com/dpi/ADA.pdf

IOC definition: The state achieved when Military Capability is available in its minimum usefully deployable form. The date of achievement is the ISD.
In-Service Date (ISD). In-Service Date is declared when the military capability provided by the system is assessed as available for operational use in its minimum usefully deployable form (IOC).
http://www.aof.mod.uk/aofcontent/tactical/randa/content/glossary.htm

ADA expects the InAF to buy more MK-I versions.

What do you mean by a “successful program”?