insomnia.delhiTV REPORT: Indian Navy Exercises Options For 3 More Scorpene Submarines
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1BrmJ6yKkI&feature=player_embedded
Do not know about that, if they are options its worth waiting till the first few come out and have the later ones updated as much with the current tech of that time as possible, no point signing in now and have the manufacturer raise costs later, perhaps navy is trying to ensure that the budget is approved (even that is not water tight).
Would be the perfect solution for the Navy, 9 Scorpions submarines, followed by 6 more from France with similar systems, a lot of headaches solved.
That said lets wait for the first submarine come out of the line, i think there might be delays, might be easy to learn how to build them under heavy ToT, not so sure how easy it will be to keep the quality standards when they have to include locally manufactured components.
It could change its mind. There are still some which could be put back into service.
They could, and they should have been put into service a long time ago, thank fully they were never needed.
insomnia.delhiYes ADA should and even IAF be held responsible for the tax payers money. But how about that small 2 trillion dollars in Swiss banks that the news channels are now being so vocal about?
And by any chance do you guys here think about the kick backs in defense deals that few responsible governments servants might have deposited outside the country?
Who knows what these kick backs are for especially when the presence of foreign arm lobbyist are well known. May be the foreign arms dealers wanted the India government to support LCA/Arjun and all others indigenous efforts better
Get this fact right, India is ruled by nationalistic saints whose sole aim is the rise of India as a technology super power and they have supported LCA program from the word go. But it is the incompetent engineers and scientist who have let this nation down. So how about disbanding ADA, DRDO and HAL or probably applying the numero uno solution “privatize the PSUs”.
The good thing about our western neigbor is their citizen knows what is the cut. It is 10%.
If there were 2 trillion dollars from India in Swiss banks, all we would have to do to make the economy jump through the roof would be to change the tax laws, there are no 2 trillion dollars hiding around anywhere.
No matter what we want situations to be like, we live with whatever situations are like.
There was and is corruption in India, it is both decreasing and on the front page, the level of corruption is directly related to laws that are in place to fight it and the level of transparency.
India has a billion things to spend money on, defence is one of them, defence industry is another, and India never had this kind of cash to spend in the 90s.
It seems that back in the 90s Private Industry was not a strong point of India, hi technology private sector Industry is still not a strong point, the government and PSU structure was all the government had, which is now starting to change.
There are several engineers in DRDO and its subsidiary organisations, many good, many bad, many should not be called Engineers, just as with other PSUs, to disband the organisation in favour of a non existent hi technology private sector will be like jumping from a hi rise building hoping that your small umbrella will act as an parachute.
insomnia.delhiI do not think for one minute the failures will magically disappear at foc of the mk2.
Unless they can return the mmrca aircraft back to the oem without any penalties or loss of money to the Indian tax payer.
So the successes from the project do not count.
It was and is about developing capabilities, the program was started like many other ones to develop the capabilities to design, develop and manufacture military aviation products and components inside India, several new organisations and facilities were designed to accomplish this, and they keep on working in other projects as well.
Otherwise it would have been much easier to get a light fighter design from the Soviets, along with the engine and avionics with whatever indigenous content possible, and start churning them out. Which i think would have been a better option with LCA Tejas developing in parallel, however our Government had to (still has) run a huge nation with very limited monies to spend.
The light combat aircraft was a start.
The light fighter was never supposed to work on the MMRCA tender, that was around from the time InAF wanted extra Mirage-2K’s, we missed the bus on that when the government decided to start a long and winding path to the MMRCA (the current tender), if the governments had any brain, by now we could have had 5 years of squadron service from Mirage-2K units inducted around 2000.
Right now the InAF supports Tejas, they are still getting a good platform to replace the MiG-21s and they can see the uprated and refined tejas starting its development process.
The real failure will be not following up on the program and doing generational development of the available components, like the engine (which is now going to be another JV), that will be the real loss.
insomnia.delhiBlaming the iaf for the complete and utter failings of ADA is going to far. Iaf did not stipulate composites or shm. Those were added for rnd and to allow someone to publish.
The InAF did stipulate the capability, and a single aircraft that can do multiple role in a single airframe, and to wait till all of these capabilities were developed before agreeing to accept the plane into squadron service, along with the latest generation of avionics to do it, and they are supporting the program with orders……..
Eventually its a deep program, however metaphors like a three legged Cheetah because it does not meed the thurst to weight requirement of the InAF, being taken to a dead Cheetah in the jungle just to diss the Tejas aircraft without any reason are too much.
I suppose according to you these complete and utter failings of ADA will magically disappear when the mark 2 version reaches FOC?
There is more to this than a clever little comment.
insomnia.delhiI suppose you are referring to the J-20
MiG-21s, JF-17s, J-8s etc. etc.
There is the PAK-FA for that sorta work.
Not taking in metaphors any-more, cheetahs and what have you.
insomnia.delhiGrowth road map for ‘International Super-Hornet’ (pgs.24-25):
http://www.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=416153058&o=int&prev=si
It seems the EPE version with 118KN of thrust is the engine on the MMRCA super hornet.
Would have been better to include the F-35ish internal IRST and CFT(as an option) as well.
The MMRCA offer by Boeing includes a Israeli missile/laser warning system, interesting, anyone has any ideas as to which system this might be? If i remember correctly there was some Israeli EW gear on Singapore’s new F-15s.
Sancho, your last link is rather old (from July last year). I suspect the other two links you gave are actually referring to that July story. Therefore the information you presented most likely is out-dated.
Here is some more up-to-date information…:
Its not going to be sooner than the last quarter of 2011, thats for sure.
Did India ever communicate any interest in the F-35?
And seeing how India is increasingly propped up by the U.S. as a second front against China – what would be the chances that India gets a F-35 assembly line?
India will have to buy the F-35 first, no space for that in the InAF at-least, IN will be interested, thats for sure.
insomnia.delhiA three legged Cheetah is dead Cheetah. It should be kept in the zoo and not let out in the jungle. Must give credit to IAF officials for their professionalism and for calling a spade a spade unlike some fanboys who cannot accept the reality even after senior IAF officers have stated the facts.
A three legged Cheetah is dead Cheetah. It should be kept in the zoo and not let out in the jungle. Must give credit to IAF officials for their professionalism and for calling a spade a spade unlike some fanboys who cannot accept the reality even after senior IAF officers have stated the facts.
Eso una lengua tan agudo como su azote, Zorro huelgas nuevamente.:diablo:
Bablefish rules…..
Perhaps your reading too much into constructive criticism……..
While we are talking metaphors, i think a three legged Cheetah about to receive a leg implant is welcomed, especially when its going to face dinosaur fossils.
Apparently, so will InAF.
insomnia.delhiThe European situation is very exiting, I still like the planes, however these are combat aircraft inducted for a very specific purpose.
It would be very desirable for me and exiting to see the region become like Europe,we could take the road from Delhi go through Pakistan to Afghanistan, enter Iran to Turkey, possibly go beyond to Europe, I am sure once the road link to Nepal is established we (in India) will be able to travel through Nepal into China….
I think the step towards removing the man from the machine is a very desirable one for the manufacturer and the planners, if the technology exists. It is very obvious that to accommodate a man there have to be certain arrangements that could instead store more fuel or weapons, and the human body is much more limited than what a machine could be made to endure, the step at current technology is a right one, its not like they would have missed doing the feasibility studies.
I agree, for us it will become less attractive once its just about the machine without a man to relate to, and quite boring……
insomnia.delhiI don’t mean to politicise this thread but I feel your comment is very optimistic.
However I agree that for aviation and mil-tech enthusiasts the sub continent and south east asia offer much excitement compared to Europe. (yawns as I await European UCAV revolution)
Oh! but you are, you most certainly are…….
JAS-39, Rafale, and Typhoon……………
Work going on towards very sophisticated technology (the sort of tech required for a UCAV is something i am surprised you yawn at.).
Yes the future is bright, however Europe leads in innovation, something that does not change in a short time, so in terms of excitement for new things, its still Europe, in terms of potential conflict sadly we have a lead.
insomnia.delhiIt seems an unfortunate development, I will pose the question on some Russian forums and see what I get. Similarly, Mil apparently did not send any Mi-28s over to India for the Attack Helicopter Tender, wonder what that is about.
From whatever experience i have with central government tenders (Gov. of India), sometimes you just read a tender and know that it was designed to favour a certain contender, it is quite possible that in the case of Mi-28 they may have seen little chance of fulfilling the conditions of the tender on technical grounds, which is not to say that it is not a good helicopter, just that perhaps the IAF was looking for something else.
“The request for the proposal (RFP) was cancelled last week after the three companies could not meet the qualitative requirements,” Indian defence ministry spokesman Sitanshu Kar told AFP.
“A fresh RFP will be floated shortly,” Kar added, without specifying when the global tender would be issued.
The three companies which were in the race for the contract were Russia’s Kamov, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space (EADS) company and Italian-British group Agusta Westland, spokesman Kar said.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jj-w6yRtXvYk8HBLtx4aQvdqCJAA
As far as the MMRCA goes, i think no one yet has reported anything on MiG-35 not performing well in the tenders, if it meets the tender requirements, it will have the advantage of showing very low lifetime costs, and if it can meet the offsets it should be well under other competitors in the total bid amount.
It seems like even if MiG has given up on MiG-35`s chances, some Su-35`s could be sent, which essentially would leave the point that India can just induct further more MKI (Mk. 2`s with Su-35 tech if they want).
The upgrade of the Su-30s has been in the news reports quite a number of times and i think there it will be a very good oppertunity for the Russian defence aviation industry, the amount of Su-30s in InAF service will be very big by 2015/17, with Su-35 perhaps they already have many of the components that could be offered for the upgrade.
Consider that the 60-70 MiG-29s are undergoing a near billion dollar upgrade program, the Su-30 upgrade is money in the pocket for the Russian Industry and they should start pushing the Indian Ministry of Defence through the Russian Ministry of Defence to start the upgrade as soon as possible, after all it took nearly a decade to sign the MiG-29 upgrade deal.
insomnia.delhiDiscounting MiG-35, I get the impression that Tejas price is 1/2 that of the next cheapest MMRCA contender. Buying 40 Tejas Mk1 to replace MiG-21’s is a far, far cheaper option than buying more MMRCA’s to keep up squadron numbers.
I do not know, the Tejas uses quite a array of very sophisticated equipment sourced from worlds leading Industries, and they (DRDO) have really not cut any corners in the technology involved behind the plane (from design to manufacturing).
Here
In aeronautics, the IAF has placed orders for 40 LCA Tejas, developed by the DRDO. The value of these 40 aircraft is estimated around Rs. 7,000 crore. The unmanned aerial vehicle, Nishant and the pilotless target aircraft, Lakshya, are under production.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article1076132.ece
That is 170 Crore per fighter, which is 38 million dollars
When the mark ii version of the airplane comes out it will feature a lot of improvements in things that are visible like engine upgrade, airframe design refinement, and things that are under the skin a generational upgrade of the avionics (including the radar), things will only become more expensive, not less. The Indian Air Force has left the cheap MiG-21 replacement a long time back when it increased its requirements to current world standards, Tejas for one would certainly not be a cheap replacement or a low tech one, it could have been one and with lesser requirements, it would have been inducted in the service by now.
However the first order includes a lot of support through lifetime money (like it does with several other deals) and this should come down with subsequent orders.
Still buying the mark i version is certainly cheaper than the MMRCA, and a larger part of that money goes back to the economy.
insomnia.delhiTime for a Loke prediction: Twenty years from now China will operate more aircraft carriers than the US.
If i am alive, i will send you a glenfiddich 18, or anything of equal value.
insomnia.delhiThe prime minister of China recently announced that China aims at replacing the dollar as interrnational currency by the chinese currency. At the same time they are developing 5th gen. fighters, and billions in other new military toys, and they have a foreign policy scavenging e.g. Africa for basisc materials with the same moral standrards as the old imperialistic powers of the west.
All ingredients for a ladge future conflcit are unfolding and growing here
WO II involved a total population (all countries involved) of 800 million people?
China alone has 1.2 billion or something like that?
The only way Europe and PRC can have a conflict is if European naval forces travel all the way to PRC, no matter how many planes and ships they build, it does not seem like they will be able to mount even a remotely threatening offensive anywhere near Europe, even as far as a decade or two.
If it does PRC can expect (apart from great disappointment) a very sharp decrease in its growth rate and complete isolation from the 2 largest markets of this world.
PRC will look towards strengthening its relations with Europe and USA as time grows, due to the size of its economy it will be the largest economy in this world, however it will still be depend on imports to drive and sustain its economy.
As for the ability to project power, well i do not see any PRC deployments around the world that can even began to threaten Europe, the largest operations they have carried out are the current anti piracy missions, and you can compare European involvement to theirs.
The world is different now.
insomnia.delhiI wonder how the Indian 2-seater will differ from the T-50, i doubt it will be a relatively straight forward conversion like Su-27UB.
Press release from the press information bureau GoI
The aircraft to be jointly developed is termed Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF). PMF draws upon the basic structural and system design of the Russian FGFA Technology Demonstrator with modifications to meet IAF specifications which are much more stringent. Programme options include the design & development of a twin seater variant and the integration of an advanced engine with higher thrust at a later stage.
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=68611
Nothing too demanding i think.
insomnia.delhiOn page 8 you reported on IAF chief Air Chief Marshal PV Naik saying:
Naik went on to describe the Tejas as a “MiG-21++” fighter, and went on to say, “At present it is not a fourth generation aircraft.
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/01/iaf-grudgingly-accepts-tejas-ioc-wants.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FUQMw+%28LiveFist+-+The+Best+of+Indian+Defence%29It looks like IAF & Co preparing the public on lowering the expectations…
Everything depends on context, the MiG-21++ comment can also be seen as the ACM’s justification for going ahead with the 40 orders for the Mark I version with IN20 version of the engine, as it will be ++ ahead the MiG-21s currently in service.
The fourth generation aircraft part was taken from a complete statement he made, “At present it is not a fourth generation aircraft. It will come up, but at present it is not.”, followed by projected a need for 83 (the Mk-I had a initial order of 20 which increased to 40), showing complete support to the program and its development process.
From your link
“There are some areas where work still needs to be done. There are aspects that need to be improved. We have agreed to a list of concessions for IOC. But we are sure that ADA will fulfil those by June, with full operational clearance in a couple of years. The refinements we are looking for include wake penetration tests, all weather clearance, lightning clearance, etc. Some parameters have only been partly tested. After all, we’ve waited a long time for the Tejas. We don’t want a partial platform. We want everything fully operational,” he said.
In the end everything depends upon the orders, a order for 2 squadrons of LCA is not a light one, 40 planes is a lot of money, a lot of men could spend their life in true luxury in the amount of money a single plane costs to purchase and run for 30 years.
The InAF operates as the AF in the Indian armed services, very little publicity work done outside the one to keep the recruitments up.
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