Stop bitching. Back too topic

http://www.guardian.co.uk/feedarticle?id=7306585 Yuri Dolgoruky finaly in the water..Hope too see some good pictures soon.

Kuznetsov group back in the Barents-sea. Kuznetsov, Norwegian frigate Roald Amundsen and Norwegian P-3C Orion…Looks like they made the Med deployment without any accidents

Doesn’t mater Medvedev will win anyway, the elections are typical process, but I wanted Sergei Ivanov to be the new president instead of Medvedev. The siloviki group is the best.

Anyway back to our agenta:

First of all do you know if “Kirov” scrapped? Also do you have any information about the modernizing process of “Admiral Nakhimov”?

Brezhnev, can u please (!) stop spamming all military forums online with topics about russian navy. We are all tired reading about your displeasure with the russian goverment and how they run things. I see you with different nicks on a dozen military forums, but you are very easy to recognize. Stating the same thing in every posts, and asking the same question over and over again. Often with a bad attitude over other forum-members. I respect your knowledge about russian navy and weaponsystems, but you need to calm dawn dude, and keep your personal opinions for yourself. No need to repeat yourself every time….ok?

Neat I really don’t know. I know a few people who I can ask and check them out. Looks to me like an enlarged Amur.

I already answered this one. 11 different designs of development projects for small-size submarines. From P-130 as the smalles and P-750E as the biggest. Just read the pictured displays in front of the sub-models. Will try to post some pictures of the designs later

What you see is shrouded or ducted.

It is a step towards a pump jet, which takes the ducted design further with a longer shroud and more propellers within the duct.

Here is an example of a pump jet that was experimented on a Kilo.

http://tuku.military.china.com/military/html/2007-10-16/3190797_513856384.htm

A skewed propeller is one with blades of a complex geometric design that sort of really curves around. See this example on a Song class sub.

http://cnair.top81.cn/sub/039.jpg

This sort of propeller reduces cavitation. When it was first developed, it was considered a top classified secret because it played a major role in noise reduction for the 688 and later Ohio classes. But the design did not stay a secret so long, and generally its standard fare on any recent sub design now around the world.

Typhoon still uses ducted propellers which also reduces cavitation issues. The Kilos that specifically use this sort of skewed propellers are designated 636. It is not clear what the Oscar II and the Sierras are using. The Akula is definitely using this. The Lada/Amur is also using it. The Borei was designed with such a propeller at first, but in the final implementation, may have switched to a pump jet, which is another way to deal with cavitation issues. The Seawolf, Virginia, Trafalgar, Astute, Le Truimphant and Barracuda classes all use pump jets.

Thank you, as i thought..
Btw damn nice picture of the Alrosa pumpjet, never seen it so close before and never actually fitted to the hull. Have a picture where they are doing some maintenance in drydock with the pumpjet off.
Does anyone know how satisfied the russian are with the pumpjet on Alrosa? What is her speed and sound profile compared to regular Kilo’s? Why haven’t we seen pumpjet on other subs? Is it a good idea to put a pumpjet on a diesel submarine? Do you get enough power to make such a design useful?

I have seen discussions on naval forums about the subject , and not many believe the Borey has a pumpjet, the design does not look like it, and the propulsion unit is to small to be a pumpjet. Also there is some problems in the design of water-intake etc.. It is more likely to be a shrouded prop like on Typhoon. I realy cant understand either why trying out a new design on a new SSBN. Why not try it on one of the older SSN’s?
The US tryed this tech on a LA boat isn’t that true? Are this boat still in service with the pumpjet btw?

Again, Let met tell you this. Squared sail designs are not Russian. Distinct humpback? All SSBNs whose designs originated from adapting SSNs tend to have a distinct humpback. Unless you designed the sub so large from the start to be an SSBN, like the Ohio and the Typhoon class.

And how many US, French and British subs have squared sails and sails with diving planes, huh? Lots more.

All i said was that i think the 094 hull design have many similarities with russian SSBN’s. If it is very important for you to convince us that the design is based on western subs, then ok for me. I see similarities with russian SSBN

Kilo does not have dive planes on the sail.

Correct, my mistake.

Oh and tell me which ones. The Borei is out of it, it might have shifted to a pumpjet instead.

Might have yes, i have seen many stating it cant be though, based on the design we saw on her launch…could also be of similar design as on the Typhoon. which by the way have two seven bladed propellers. See drydock pictures of Dimitry Donskoy.
Also the Sierra class, the Oscar (two seven bladed propeller) in addition to the Akula and Kilo you already mentioned. Go and look at subpirates website for pictures.

I don’t see much resemblance at all. The 094 is basically a converted 093 with a humpback. The 093 does not have the faintest similarity to the Victor IIIs but looks so close to the early 688, the first time people saw the pictures, they were claiming its a 688 PS.

There is a faint resemblance to the Delta class, but the Delta class in fact deviated from the standard Soviet subs in the way the sail and the bow planes. Standard Soviet designs have streamlined sails with bow planes, while Western designs favored squared sails with the occasional sail planes. But in basic concept the 094 and the Delta class are worlds apart. The Delta class are two shafted subs with 4 bladed props; the 094 is a single shaft design with a slow turning 7 bladed asymmetrical prop, which is something that you would see, like let’s say, in the Ohio class. Most Soviet SSBNs use a two shafted design, the Borei returns to the single shaft.

The 093 and 094 are strongly rumored to be nuclear-turbine-electric. Now whose nuclear subs in the world have a similar propulsion layout? Yup, but the French through their Rubis/Amethyst class. We have known the French have a deep impact on the PLAN with various radars, the Croatale SAM, the data links and tactical computer centers, the Exocet being the basis for the first Ying Jing series. The look of the 054 Jiangkai series are suggestive of the La Fayette, and the Song class to the Agosta. Now if you look at the basic shape of the Rubis class sail, compare that to the Han’s sail.

Now look closer to the limber holes on the 093s and 094s. They use a slit design that is typical of Western subs, instead of separated fixed holes like in Russian subs. The design of these slit holes are meant so they can be mechanically covered, and closing them would reduce the noise.

Well I see resemblance with russian SSBN’s. Look at this picture: http://futabamil.hobby-web.net/souko/src/1174819548637.jpg
The sail, the sail planes, the “slit design” on the limber holes, the humpback etc (well the humpback start further to the front on the 094 though)
I was talking about the outside view of the sub, not the ecuipment installed inside. Actually the sub looks more like a Delta III than a Delta IV.
About the sub (093/094) beeing based on Victor III design, i dont think they mean the hull, as we all can see they dont look the same, but nuclear submarine tech is a lot more than the design of the hull..I believe that the 093/094 is of the same generation as the Victor submarine, sound quieting etc..

Another thing. The Delta class are two shafted sub with 5 bladed props, several drydock pictures on the internet can confirm this. More info about the 094 having a 7 bladed prop?