no s-200 in yougoslavia got dvina nad volhov of older sams.
they were in neutral movement
no s-200 in romania ukraine site covered whole of it.
There were no gaps in survailance radars and missile ranges gaps were closed with new versions of missile and MiG-25 in bulgaria.
Yes and no ,there was reserve position for tbilisi battery on mountain north of lake sevan in armenia to cover most of east black sea in case of need be.

Bulgaria had no MiG-25 interceptors, they were all recon/training aircraft. Yet the S-200/300 missiles around Sofia and the S-75s there, alongside with S-125s around Plovdiv and the Burgas and Varna S-75s and S-125s made an unintereupted front from Yugoslavia to the Black sea.

These are nuclear bombers, they only get to do a single mission in case of a global war. Most probably one-way (one way ticket, one way ticket…). No one talks about a second or third mission against the US.

As I look at the map, wouldn’t it be more efficient to get a regiment of Su-27’s and one of Su-34/24 out there?

Only the Bistry could sail at sea (working engines).

Russian friends:

Can you make a little breakdown of the Pr 20380/20382 corvettes, like how many of these are to be build for the VMF, what are the armament options, sensor options, price ranges, main specs, functions they will serve there and so?

Those are so new units that finding accurate info on them is difficult, I would be very pleased if someone could send me accurate info on this unit, not to say least comments about the design or its sensors (what about the Vigneta ATAS or the Furke-B radar)

Friends, I will upload info on promised topics tomorrow, out of home now!.

I’m not quite Russian, but still:
1. The armament of the first hull is 8 X-35 Uran, 2xAK-630, 1xA-190, 1xKortik module, 2×4 Paket-NK 324mm torpedoes.
2. The armament of the next hulls will be 4 VLS cells in front for anti-ship missiles (probably Klub and not so probably BrahMos), 12 VLS 9M96 (short version with range of around 30-40 km), A-190, 2xAk-630 and 2×4 Paket-NK. Some not so probable solutions are the replacement of AK-630 with Palma mosules and the addition of Medvedka anti-submarine missiles. Yet I do not believe that this will happen, as the Palma does not appear to be ready and the corvette is not quite ASW oriented. There WILL be development of the R-77 missile in MICA-VL style, yet no details are known. There is a slight possibility that we will see it on the 20380.
3. Right now there are 4 ships in construction, the one in Amur Shipyards is not certain (may not be finished there as construction was shifted to Severnaya Verf alone). Around 20-40 ships are to be built for all four fleets according to the plans.
4. The ammount of money suppposedly paid to the shipyards is to be about 70 millions for a hull, but I have no idea if this includes weapons/electronic systems and so on.
5. The price of a single 9M96 missile is above 1 million dollars
6. The Furke radar (PESA btw) is HATED by people on Russian forums (balancer.ru and especially alexNAVY, who appears to work in the field). It lacks stabilisation, so when there are waves the perfomance deteriorates very very fast. Also, it appears that when the radar aquires a target (gives it a number) and then passes it to the Kortik, then loses it for a second, it gives it a new number, which is again passed to the Kortik module. As a result, the Kortik module starts a new track wich slows it down. According to alexNAVY, any other radar is better than the Furke, he suggests that they should instal existing radars like Fregat or Podkat. The same user doesn’t thin that the Furke will give enough information to the 9M96 for a launch against a target more than 20km away. Datalink to the missile was also a problem I think.
7. Recent target practice against anti-ship missiles (P-15 or a deriviative of it) gave rather negative results – missiles were shot down, but the Kortik did not perform up to specifications.
8. I think that there were no complains about the sonars, but there is way too little information there.
9. There have been complains somewhere that the bridge of the ship wasn’t too functional.
10. Future functions of the project 20380 – this is a rather discussed topic on Russian forums, as the users there don’t like the ship too much. According to them, it is built without a specific requirement and a concept of the future fleet, rahter there are all systems piled up together on one hull without a specific task for it. One of the main charges against the ship is that it is too large for a corvette, yet too small for a frigate…
There is insufficient ASW armament, which is rather strange as half of the ships the 20380 is supposed to replace are exactly ASW oriented.
Also, everyone wants the AK-630s gone as they are quite inaccurate. In stead of them they suggest Palma or Roy (a development like the AK-630 but with twin gatlings placed vertically).
As a whole, most people dislike the anti-aircraft armament of the 20380.

As a little sidenote: My opinion is that if the problems with the radar are solved, the Russians will have something a bit more capable than the Gowind 200 in terms of firepower. So, I don’t see that many problems with the corvette. The only think I can think of is that they should develop a dedicated anti-submarine version armed with the anti-submarine Klubs for a 1135 replacement.

Just a sidenote for the discussion above, according to what I have read from Balancer.ru
1. There is 1 Yasen in assembly, amd there are hull parts for another (under production/produced?)
2. The Seawolf, no matter what is said about it in terms of quietness, has been tracked by the Russian navy while on patrol in the Arctic (the person who mentioned this said that it was the second submarine of the Seawolf class).
3. Atrina is an operation in which 5 Victor IIIs made a breakthrough in the Atlantic Ocean in 1987 undetected. According to the Russinas, the 5 subs were hunted by 3 surface ASW groups (including a British carrier), coastal aviation, and at least 10 enemy submarines. According to the Russians, the subs were undetected for 7 days.

Do you have a good source for the 9M96 missiles on the 20380s?

The source is this forum thread – http://forums.airbase.ru/2008/05/t61854,8–Varianty-modernizatsii-20380-Stereguschi.html

See the post of alexNAVY at the end of the page.

I think that while discussing radar detection ranges, we must also take into account the exact mode in which the radar achieves a certain range. For example, I’m sure that IRBIS (or any modern AESA/PESA) could scan out for targets until it reaches the radar horizon some 400 kilometers away. BUT, it may be done with a very narrow beam and slowly, very slowly. Thus, sheer radar detection range means nothing if it takes you too much time to scan the entire forward hemisphere.

It is far better to compare ranges of similar modes of different radars, yet I doubt that anyone here has enough information or is brave enough to put these details on a forum.

Paralay on the move once again 🙂
http://forums.airbase.ru/2008/04/t61160–Spetsial~nyj-korrespondent.Tajna-samolet.3763.html
See his comments about a diagram in the TV program I mentioned earlier – we have one more version of the PAK-FA. This guy must be dreaming about the aircraft every night…