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  • in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2226746
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    how about this? i know people are saying now days that f35 is made for bombing only – its not…

    just read all the link i provided
    also the guy in that video is also the one who think F-15 is over expensive and useless and we should not put any radar or electric equipment on F-16 ..etc so to be honest i dont think you should take him seriously

    in reply to: F-35 News, Multimedia & Discussion thread (2) #2226862
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    sorry im a little off topic but i had a quick question for you guys! so on the internet and in the media people are always talking about the f35’s superiority and how this is going to be the future of american airplane industry but my question is how?

    i looked at its preference stats on wiki and comparing to su35 which is a 4+gen plane f35 in inferior in several characteristics (yet its being called 5th gen) and when compared to Pak-fa its inferior in 80-90% of its characteristics. My question is why is US settling for a jet that is almost inferior to most “modern jets” 4+ and all 5 gen and spending almost a trillion dollars?? with that money why cant they make something cheaper and better preforming (granted that US has allot of scientists and “some facilities are more high tech” then the russians , yet the russians make better fighters – why is that?

    that have been discuss like a billions times before , so try to use google
    long answer :

    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?122229-F-35-debate-thread-Lets-talk-about-the-world-s-2nd-best-5th-gen-aircraft
    http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=16084&sid=4025cfaed160fb159b5b3e4b1409bbb0
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?129077-A-quot-Rough-quot-F-35-Kinematics-Analysis
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT8_9hhMEMw
    http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=21808&sid=135efb5390e07bf56feabbc552a9ee66
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?120111-stealth-fighter-and-BVR-missile/page2
    short answer
    it not inferior to 4+ gen fighter , it better in important aspect such as RCS , sensor , jamming ..etc while not as good in kinematic , however kinematic isnot as important today as they were before , otherwise nothing can compete with a mig-31

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #939247
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    according to this http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
    F4U-4 and spitfire XIV seem to be alot superior to FM-2 , F6F-5 ,Ta 152H , ki-84 , N1K2-J , Fw 190D-9 , A6m , p-47N, quite close to p-51B in speed but better in turning and acceleration not sure how they stand again spiteful XIV and P-51H or bearcat though

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #940041
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    http://www.degnans.com/markd/Accel.jpg
    http://www.degnans.com/markd/Brown_Accel.jpg

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #940063
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14v109g-level.jpg
    http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14v109k-level.jpg

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #940067
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    Re 79

    Not if you’re performing a ‘corkscrew’ manoeuvre in a Lancaster !

    btw
    i can only find performer chart for aircraft in ww ii , havenot seen any chart for mustang H , bearcat or the like
    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/wade-accel.jpg
    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/wade-comp-perf-chart1.jpg
    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/wade-turning.jpg
    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/wade-roll.jpg
    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/wade-dive.jpg
    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/wade-data.jpg
    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/naca868-rollchart.jpg

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #940313
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    Perhaps I can offer my interpretation of the subject:

    Agility
    Climb rate
    Dive rate
    Ceiling
    Range
    Speed @ 20K
    Turn rate
    Armament
    Versatility

    If the make and model you are proposing scores 10 out of 10 for all nine qualities, this is the bench mark and you have the perfect aerial fighting machine. The vices and virtues of all military a/c operational at the end and beyond the end of WW2 are well known. It is a simple matter to score them against the qualities listed.

    very helpful list , btw wasn’t agility is the same as turn rate ?

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #943465
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    And the answer, as is being repeated ad nauseam, is there isn’t.

    i think i have to disagree with this , yes human play an important factor , yes tactic is important too but that doesn’t mean there no aircraft superior to the other , of course it may not totally overwhelm but still provide advantages , and even tactic must rely on the strength of your aircraft compared to the enemy Ex : if the hell cat wasn’t better armorer , have better fire power and speed compared to the Zero then their tactic wouldn’t work , of course the gap between these aircraft listed in post 1 may not be huge but doesn’t mean they all equal

    another poster here even said this :

    The one with the best trained, motivated, and dedicated pilot.

    Man with a gun can be taken down by man with a knife. Man with a knife can be defeated by unarmed man with a little martial arts knowledge. Unarmed man with a little martial arts knowledge can be taken down by man with a lump of rock… Which one was best?

    it obvious that eventhough these situation can happened we all know that gun> knife > unarmed ( btw actually it really need a guy who train in martial arts for really long time to actually defeat someone with a knife )

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #943472
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    In even average hands either the DH Hornet or Mk 22/24 Spit.

    can you explain why 🙂 ?
    iam not sure about the spit but wasn’t the twin engine fighter in WW II like P-38 , Bf 110 ,Havilland Mosquito are often consider inferior to the singer engine fighter like P-51B , Fw-190D-9 due to their inferior in of speed and agility ?
    even the late war verison like DH Hornet and F7F-4N Tigercat still slower and less agile than late war single engine fighter ta-152H , P-51H , even though twin engine seem to have superior cannon and armor ( may be except the p-47 )

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #943473
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    Thanks Duggy. One tries.

    Far from being ‘lazy’ I offered the results of a number of years research, examples and (in passing) the answer to the “better pilot in inferior aircraft will beat average pilot in superior aircraft” trope – which is that the inferior cannot dictate the combat, though may win on occasion or evade. In that case the inferior aircraft operator (the country & air force) ‘loose’ because they cannot command and control the air.

    Very well. The discussion you want is to match off performance factors and come up with one aircraft that has an aggregate performance advantage. There’s no reason not to do that, and it may be of interest or amusement, but for a number here, myself included, it’s of no import at all. (Because it is but one minor factor in reality, military planning and history.) But if you go ahead, you do need to define your terms better.

    What is ‘lazy’, I would suggest is not properly defining your terms for the discussion. If the question “assumes equal pilot skill and experience” you need to say so, I’d suggest, as this is far more important than paper performance.

    But count me out. Because, very simply:
    A country’s fighter arm has a simple job to do; that it to obtain and keep command of the air so that the other military and political objectives can be carried out. That is all. There are many aspects to how to do that, among which is operating adequate aircraft supported by an infrastructure to carry it out. Differences between adequate aircraft (see my earlier point re: adequate vs inadequate) are completely irrelevant in real-world calculations or history, because they are never decisive.

    By all means play on, but you’re arguing “what’s the taste of purple” with the posters here who see the question as overwhelmed by more real, larger factors.

    Regards,

    the question here was simply to know which one is the superior aircraft , of course i know about the pilot fact , but let just assume that it average or equal good in both side

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #943474
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    Oh c’mon, maybe the OP asked quite a confusing/silly question, but some of “veteran poster” replies here are not better either. I can see some folks trying to put this guy down, but really… Repeating “the slower planes also shot down faster planes!” argument is getting borderline ridiculous. Obviously they did… so what? By using this logic, nobody would have bothered with replacing Merlins with Griffons, or DB 601s with 605s or R-1830s with R-2800s, finally props with jets because “it’s pilot first and a machine second”, huh? It’s not that simple and You know it. In the long run, I’d rather have a plane with overall better performance, just to have more attack and/or disengage options to choose from, especially If I wasn’t an uber-skilled-minority ace, but just an average-majority pilot.

    Keyword – “can”, which doesn’t equal “often does”. More often than not it’s the other way around. This instantly reminded me infamous duel from “Raiders of the Lost Ark” 😀
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs
    The sword guy was probably better “trained, motivated, and dedicated”, yet the final outcome was as expected. Malcolm’s “stand-off capability” reply is one of the most reasonable ones here so far.

    thank you , finally someone understand the point am trying to make

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #943476
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    The one with the best trained, motivated, and dedicated pilot.

    Man with a gun can be taken down by man with a knife. Man with a knife can be defeated by unarmed man with a little martial arts knowledge. Unarmed man with a little martial arts knowledge can be taken down by man with a lump of rock… Which one was best?

    well how often does a man with a knife can take down a man with a gun if both side have equal skill ? , if you was on a fight on street would you rather be unarmed or have a knife or a gun ..etc , it so obvious that with equal skill the gun > knife > unarmed

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #943479
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    Doesn’t your answer prove the point that situation, pilot etc are important factors into any engagement. Going just on stats the Harrier had a 100% record, so is the ‘better’ aircraft in that situation…

    P.s. Agree with Moggy..Spiteful was the best. 😉

    the harrier success have to do more with the situation and the support from the ship than it’s own ability , what iam trying to diccuss here is the performance of the aircrafts

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #943945
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    Does it really matter which is best?

    well , just curiously want to know , also discussing aircraft performance is fun

    in reply to: What was the best post-WW II fighter ? #943967
    mig-31bm
    Participant

    Errrm, what is the point of this thread?

    discuss the performance of these aircraft in post #1

Viewing 15 posts - 1,666 through 1,680 (of 1,759 total)