µYes Mig 31 . struggle, even in your short “demo”. Imprecise, need high AoA to turn, pityful time to bank etc.

Imprecise ? how do you define precise? any video for example ?
and high AoA? it barely use any Aoa in that turn. Any video of Rafale roll faster than this ? 1:22

Hae a look at Rafale, Typhoon demo…. World a difference. It is clean.

I did ,saw no difference. So i will ask again. Do you have any side by side video comparison to show the alleged terribly unclean, imprecise, high AoA turning of F-35 compared to Rafale?. Without evidence it just opinions

So what move did it do that a delta-duck couldn’t? I’m not asking for a friend since I saw the Paris demo in person.

High AoA nose pointing, specifically the pedal turn

The F35 reaches AoA when most other fighter jets without internal bays (and with a smaller fuel fraction) would fly normaly at reasonnable AoA and therefore retaining energy. it was constrained to go in AoA to match other 4th jet maneuvrability

Wrong, it reached high AoA because the pilot wanted to do a post stall display. Those nose pointing are not possible at normal AoA, high speed regardless of what aircraft you talking about. Secondly, the nose pointing rate are much faster than normal turn rate, the trade off is that aircraft must dump speed.

@haavarla

The F-35 have also a “soft” limit AoA.
I don’t know what that is or how the flight Control System works. But if you fly at Mach 0.7 and pull hard back on the flightstick, if its slaved for a 50 AoA.. you wreck the jet.
Its locked at 7G and 9G, so the AoA is pretty dynamical but at the same time confined as to your airspeed.

Why do you keep talking about high AoA at high air speed while the point is clearly about nose authority at high AoA, low speed?

Flynn says. “You maneuver the airplane back and forth with amazing controllability at the highest degree of angle-of-attack, and that is not the case with the only other Western airplane that can go to high AOA, the F/A-18.” The one other exception is the Raptor, which Flynn does acknowledge as having better high AOA performance than the F-35 due to its thrust vectoring capability. The Typhoon, by comparison, has a 25° AOA limit. In the F-35, Lockheed made the decision to limit the AOA to 50°, but test pilots have flown the aircraft well past that.

@haavarla

And while the Anti-Russian crowd have been screaming “speed is life”.. kind of strange that it suddenly has ceased to be..?

For cannon dogfight, speed is still very important, post stall is only a part of the envelope, but F-35 isn’t inferior in this aspect either as its subsonic acceleration is even better than Su-35, F-16.

When someone write
the more, the less
and
from Mig-29A onward
one should understand that the point is about a continuing trend, not about the performance of just one plane or even better to the initial full scale version of it.
That’s however if he is really there to discuss and not just for making chauvinistic remarks or keep on taking part to some sort of male reproductive organ measurement contest.
So, from the introduction of the MiG-29A and the Su-27 there has been a constant effort to expand the flight envelope of fighters planes in all directions but above all in the direction of noise pointing , high AoA and slow speed handling.

That not the same as your original post. You said F-35 has many great capabilities of US fighters combined but the rest of the world enjoyed the same capabilities from Mig-29A onwards. That is like saying PAK-FA has good high speed performance but the US already enjoyed similar capabilities from F-15A onwards

This kind of performances are what are called 4,5 generation in Western Europe and 4 generation+ and now even ++ in Russian, marking with those terms a difference with the previous 4 gen ones that instead was centered more on horizontal turning.

High alpha nose authority isn’t what defines the differences between 4 generation and 4.5 generation fighter. Mig-29OVT has great nose pointing due to 3d tvc but generally not considered 4.5 gen, whereas Typhoon doesn’t have great high AoA nose pointing but generally considered 4.5 gen

What is this nonsens about Mig-29 AoA limit??
Haven’t you guys learned this by now!

So again, its about Corner speed COMBINED with AoA limit.
When a Mig fly slower, like at Airshow slow, the jet can do much more than 26deg.

Again.. there is a big difference in Mach 0.9 and 0.4
Mig-29 like Su-27 thrives in the Mach 0.4 loop.

And i can promise you that F-35 can’t do 50 AoA at Mach 0.9!

No one say F-35 can do 50 AoA at Mach 0.9, we are all talking about AoA limit while aircraft still have nose authority at slow speed, as far as testimony go, Mig-29 AoA limit is at 26 degrees,nose authority of mig-29 isn’t good after that limiter aren’t there for fun

And that was the Mig-29 9.12 version which happen to be quite long in the thooth and is almost gone from VKS Inventory.
Newer Mig-29 with full Digital FBW does not have such AoA limit at all. So your point becomes quite moot.

Source? apart from Mig-29OVT with thrust vector control, i haven’t read about different AoA limit in new versions

@Marcellogo

Out of jokes I think it’s a question about the starting point from what you consider the thing.
Certainly the possibility of having a plane able to roll as an F-16 in horizontal, having the instantaneous pitch and AOA of a F/A-18 and a F-15 like acceleration and vertical climb capabilities is really a great improvement on an US legacy plane pilot’s perspective.
The slow speed handling capabilities is also something absolutely new for them , so I can understand the enthusiastic tone used.

For the rest of the world, it’s instead the more, the less all what we got from MiG-29A onward (flight performance wise only, obviously) so a cooler head is just in the order of things…

F-18 has very good low speed handling and nose authority so that is not something new for US pilot and Mig-29 have AoA limiter at 26 degrees so its nose pointing will be no where close to F-35, with 2 engines mig-29 will likely has interior roll rate too. Finally, Mig-29 cannot pull more than 7.5G with full fuel

The MiG-29 flight control system also has an AoA limiter that limits the allowable AoA to 26°. As the aircraft reaches the limit, pistons at the base of the stick push the stick forward and reduce the AoA about 5°. The pilot has to fight the flight controls to hold the jet at 26°. The limiter can be overridden, however, with about 17 kg more back pressure on the stick. While not entirely unsafe and at times tactically useful, care must be taken not to attempt to roll the aircraft with ailerons when above 26° AoA. In this case it is best to control roll with the rudders due to adverse yaw caused by the ailerons at high AoA. The F-16 is electronically limited to 26° AoA. While the pilot cannot manually override this limit it is possible to overshoot under certain conditions and risk departure from controlled flight. This is a disadvantage to the F-16 but is a safety margin due its lack of longitudinal stability. Both aircraft have a lift limit of approximately
35° AoA.