Jamming? The APG-81 cannot jam the frequencies of those radars.
F-35 can also carry ALE-70 , which works in similar fashion as ALE-55
alternatively, it can use MALD-J
The TLAM is not stealthy, it will be detected and killed if it tries to loiter to find its target. Next…
The JDAM doesn’t have enough range. And can probably be shot down. Next…
JSOW-C. The C has a penetration warhead, not really suited. Will be shot down. Next…
JSOW-ER. Won’t be integrated in the F-35 for quite some time. Will be shot down.
What’s needed is either a real ARM missile if such a missile can track the emissions of those radars with a terminal seeker ( like AARGM ), either mini cruise missiles that can be launched from very low altitude like the SPEAR III, or a really steathy cruise missile like JASSM-ER with an ARM + terminal seeker
JSM is stealthy , has long range , and has both IIR , GPS , datalink and a terminal RF seeker too
http://www.janes.com/article/54738/norway-australia-sign-agreement-on-passive-rf-seeker-development-for-jsm
MADL-J? Who will launch it, without being shot down
F-35 can , and MALD-J range is something like 920 km so…
It probably doesn’t take more than 15 minutes to fold the antenna and leave. There are only a few cables to unplug before leaving. Maybe I was wrong for the 5 minutes ( that is probably the time it takes to fold the antenna though ) for the whole procedure, but anyways you can’t rely on targeting data gathered before an attack. The enemy will surely use the capability to move the system quickly as much as possible as they expect a cruise missile attack.
F-35 using APG-81 in SAR mode or ASQ-239 can update the info about target coordinate
VHF being able to engage them at something between 50 and 100 NMI a quarter to an half of the S-400 maximum distance.
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Where do you get that conclusion from ? the terminal seeker of ARH missiles can barely detect F-35 over hundred of meters in jamming condition , how will you engage them with VHF radars ?
Nobody knows the range of the APG-81 in SAR mode. 100 km is quite far, so it is doubtfull it can.
range of GMTI mode on the old RQ-4 is around 200 km , quite unreasonable to think the newer APG-81 with bigger aperture cant atleast achieve similar performer
The ASQ-239 doesn’t have enough precision at that kind of range for a GPS weapon.
I disagree , geolocate ground emitter is very easy and have been done for quite long time , even the ASQ-213 R7 on F-16 can provide GPS location for ground emitter.
Also aren’t JSOW-ER , JSM , SDB II all have secondary seekers ?
Many radars are mounted on trailers and can be moved quickly. It might take more than 5 minutes for some but even at that they can move quickly enough that satellite data is useless against them.
Tor instance the chinese skywatch radar:
http://aviationweek.com/technology/new-radars-irst-strengthen-stealth-detection-claims
Also these radars, they’re almost all mounted on trailers:
The russians also have the 55Zh6ME for instance:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]245744[/ATTACH]
I dont know where you get the idea that they can be folded and move in 5 minutes , even the 64L6E Gamma series have deployment time from 30-40 minutes , also when you moved you not transmitting , so ou are not a threat anymore.
the F-35 cannot get accurate GPS coordinates at that kind of range.
It can , either by using APG-81 in SAR mode or use ASQ-239 to locate ground emitters
Some of them are mobile. They can fold their antenna and move within 5 minutes. You can’t rely on satellite data to attack them.
I dont know any early warning radar that can fold ther radar and move in 5 minutes
The F-22/ use advanced Aesa radars that frequency hop in a lo probability of intercept mode.
that is not a passive mean
What does that article have to do with anything?
There is also an antenna farm in the wing for sniffing out signals. F-22s scored simulated kills on Rafaels without even using radar.
I think he meant to show you how passive geolocation work and what are their disadvantages , it not just coincdent that radar still the main air to air sensor
Off topic, but Typhoon + large AESA + Meteor is likely to outshine everything else in BVR, isn’t it? I wonder how the range of the Gripen E AESA will compare.
Typhoon have decent radar but it unlikely that it would be powerful enough again VLO aircraft, stealth fighter just have too big of an advantage especially with ECM
Kopp and Bill Sweetman “established long ago that stealth doesnt work”?!
Carlo Kopp the chap with a “PhD thesis, which dealt with the properties of high capacity ad hoc networks and long range microwave datalinks, using X-band and Ku-band radar apertures”, has been a (very) vocal suporter of Low RCS airframes, one of its main (of many) criticisms of the JSF is that DAVE is not stealth enough (http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2009-01.html). Almost the same could be said of Sweetman.
Carlo Kopp knowledge probably isnt bad , but ever since he started to write articles to support his agenda about why Aus should get F-22 , he throw all his credibility out of the window with his bias ”analysis” of F-22 , F-35 and Russian aircrafts (and iam pretty sure i dont need to explain why his article are terrible )
The F35 is not an air superiority aircraft. It appears to have some air to air capability.
The F3 is apparently intended as an air to air platform in its primary guise.
some proper analysis to support that statements would be good
Yes, but as previously demonstrated by calculations above.. does it really practical ?
The NG’s director clearly know what he’s talking about and select one which looks promising and not telling the whole picture.
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Actually , thinking about it, may be radar can generate EMP effect, not at X band but seem doable in Ku or Ka band , maybe not again a massive ground base radar but again something like missiles or APS on tanks like OP said is entirely possible ( and yes i know these frequency are heavily affected by weather and moisture)
Iam quite certain that SpY-1 can damage airplane or missiles radar at close range if it was at full power
The problem is How close.
To speed things up i created an excel spreadsheet based on above.. The result. Disruptive effect achieved on 3.6 Km while potentially destructive effect achieved at 266.45 meters. Does that look practical to you ? For me, it’s a No.Furthermore. My spreadsheet does not consider frequency and polarization mismatch, and no protection device installed. Modern radar will always have a form of protection to absorb excessive signal power so it won’t leak to the receiver. Clearly you will need dedicated HPM, not aircraft radar for it.
The spreadsheet is available at following link :
What exactly the difference between disruptive and destructive effect here? i first thought disruptive mean render the radar unable to detect targets but that would be jamming, and iam sure the radar can be jammed from much further distance
Anyway, it seem that create destructive effect on AAM and SAM will be much easier, seem possible
Of it’s not stealthy it’s pretty much the same in fact.
It make a difference if the target is stealthy, jamming techniques is very important too.
https://basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com/2016/03/29/electronic-countermeasure-ecm/
What kind of electronic attack you are talking about here ? Some sort of HPM ?
If it’s HPM.. forget about it because aircraft radar are simply too small for mounting such attack. At least not in the tactically useful range, against those target you mention.
For doing HPM..you will need power source in the level of hundreds of Megawatt to gigawatt level. Such power however can be provided by super reltron tube. However so far i never seen any airborne version of it.
Didn’t Boeing made a HPM weapons that can be carried by JASSM airframe?
http://mil-embedded.com/news/raytheon-emp-missile-tested-by-boeing-usaf-research-lab/
An who says a B-70 couldnt carry cruise missiles also just like the B-52 with a response time 4 times faster.
B-52 still likely to have higher load out because it can carry missiles on the wing
And fast response times when launching cruise missile from 4000-5000 km doesn’t really matter, or not enough to counter the increase in cost and high maintenance going along with it
An internet discussion ended in peace 😀 iam very very impress with the mature attitude of you guy , good job everyone , please keep this up , this is so much better than everyone yelling and throwing insult at each others
And we should have built the B-70. We still have the B-52 so tell me why a plane that flew twice as high and 4 times faster would not be a better airplane.
1) Cost
2) Range
3) Pay load.
and flying high and fast doesn’t make you invulnerable to modern SAM and AAM. While staying 4000-5000 km from enemy line, launching cruise missile does.
You know we already have a thread for the F-35 and all F-35 related angst, real or imagined..
He is the same person who made the thread “aviation set back by 70 years when we didn’t built the XB-70” what do you expect?
OK.. If the F-35A is 9g rated, then why was it limited from 5.2g to 4.6g?
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Because of the altitude different.
To turn an aircraft need to generate enough lift to counter acceleration, at high altitude the air is thinner, thus you have less lift, an aircraft that can easily excess 9 G at sea level will barely able to pull a 5-6 G turn at 15K feet.
Secondly, a sustained and instantaneous turn are very different, a sustained turn is a turn we your aircraft have enough thrust to counter drag, thus able maintain it’s velocity. By contrast, an instantaneous turn is when aircraft trade velocity to get more lift to turn (this often done by increase AoA) . Sustained turn can be done continously while if you repeatedly doing instantaneous turn without try to regain speed then your aircraft will fall down from sky