Very low fast flying ,hiding in the clutter with deceptive jamming , is another form for stealth. A Look down -shoot down capability, does not imply ability to detect and track a very low flying LO object within the clutter
A Rafale carrying weapons when viewed from higher altitude will have much higher RCS than a clean Rafale when viewed from head on ( even F-22, F-35 will have higher RCS when viewed from above)
your assessment is only true with something with really small RCS, physic size : like a NSM, SOM, JSOW.. etc
Radar theoretical horizon, based on earth curvature with zero relief and no cluster nor EM interference ,is just that the maximal theoretical horizon. Add relief and EM reflection and clutter and the theoretical range deprecate fast.
you are assumed that radar all puted on ground and there position are all known in mission planning phase while in real life they, can be puted on mountain, and there are many mobile SAM that change their position very often
Detecting and shooting down from above a fast low flying jet , is way much harder than one imagine, Kosovo experience , or even more recently in Lybia showed that even with total air superiority , AWACS and cover in the air, low flying planes evaded detection long enough , even with poor electronics.
seriously, can someone give me the link that show Mig-21 do CAS by flying low when there is fighter and AWACs cover?
On a side note, this obsession with an improbable extrapolation of the range for airborne launched MICA from VL MICA is getting really tiring. It was proven wrong ,and remain wrong even for low flying launch at +900 km/h ……compared to vertical launch at 0 km/h. It is borderline intellectually dishonest or worse.
Here is graph for R-27ER range come from flight manual
the launching aircraft speed is 1100 km/h
enemy’s speed is 900 km/h
you can see how much the range shrink when launched from low altitude, and that is assumed the launch aircraft and enemy fly at the same height, again enemy fly at higher altitude the range will be even worse since the missiles have to fight again gravity as well
( also R-27ER have much bigger motor and kinematic range compared to Mica)
You are not going to run into an area where the AWACS or ground radar can detect you, otherwise it means you’re a target from some Su27 indeed. The ESM is there to help you correct course to avoid getting caught. You planned your mission to come in undetected, & your ESM system helps you modify your plan as you go with up to date information about radar coverage. Now if you run into a ground radar detection area, you deserve getting shot,
well that the serious problems with none stealth aircraft like Rafale, since the detection range of enemy again it will be very high, much harder for it to come in undetected since the detection bubble of enemies will cover everything
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He doesn’t. Most fighter pilots who got shot down don’t know what hit them. Now does it mean you send radio waves all over the place just in case someone is waiting for you at the next corner? Mission planning is of utmost importance. Then you know what risk you have being intercepted, not by sending radar signals all over the place, LPI or not. Heck even a stealth aircraft can get shot down by a vintage SA2 with poor mission planning.
Not everything can be included in mission planning, you may know the position of fixed radar, SAM but there are many mobile SAM nowadays, position of interceptor and AWACs are not fixed either
And i didn’t say you have to transmit constantly, you can turn radar on for short time, and then turn off for some time before turn it on again, since your aircraft is moving, the best enemy can do is guess where you are. While you still have very good SA
( btw they can geolocated you at all because passive ranging required transmitting side to constantly transmit for a long period of time and keep speed and heading constant for the whole time)
Look if a flight of interceptors is sent your way by AWACS/GCI & they know that your radar is on, I bet they will come at you from an angle that your radar doesn’t cover.
A big fighter like Su-27, Mig-31, F-15 can be detected from 300-400 km by modern fighter radar ( APG-81, Apg-77, Captor-E) , thus it really hard for them to circle behind you even with AWACs help ( actually even normal fighter like F-16, Rafale, EF-2000 still have really big side aspect RCS so it not easy if not impossible for them to sneak behind enemy if the start position is frontal )
by contrast, quite easy for them to circle behind a Rafale using spectra only, since it practically blind again non transmitting enemy
Enemies that turn off radar can’t see you either, esp in bad weather. Which is rather good news in your deep strike scenario. I think it’s rather nice to be able to deny your enemy the ability to use his radar at will. He can still look for you with other means, but you’ve made his job much more complicated.
enemies will only turn off radar when they have support from other asset like AWACs or Ground radar
and think about it this way, if you only use your RWR, you wouldn’t know about silent enemy thus, the following scenario happened : imagine your formation have 10 Rafale all flying silently using only RWR to maximise stealth , your Spectra detect 2 Su-27, thus you go in for the kill without knowing that there are actually 15 Su-27 but only 2 transmitting. Understand now? using only passive sensors can put you in serious trouble sometimes
In the example of a Rafale flying with radar off, there are multiple sensors that can help you increase SA.
1. As you said there is OSF
2. There is also Mica IR, which is integrated as an extra IIR sensor in the Rafale system
OSF, Mica IR are both optical sensor, and they have the limitation like i mentioned before : not working well in bad weather or again enemy fly between cloud , very narrow FoV again target at long distance, much slower scan rate compared radar, short targeting range limited by LFR.. etc
3. There is also link 16. (Esp after SATCOM comes online with F3R).
link16 isn’t stealthy, so if you use it, may as well turn on your radar
also we talking about situation when you dont have support from AWACs or Ground radar
4. Even if ESM doesn’t detect non emitting targets, it warns you if you have been picked up by those Su27’s supporting assets (ground based radars & AWACS). If you have been detected by an awacs, chances are someone is coming at you whether you have detected them or not. Then you can start using your radar if need be since you know they know you’re here.
well you know there a radar there, but you won’t know whether it have detected you or not
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