Alternatively, a harpoon to the radar system of IOWA, then BLU-116 or BLU-109 can penetrate the deck, even WWII AP bombs can penetrate the deck, modern bunker buster bombs can do better.
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Alternatively, a harpoon to the radar system of IOWA, then BLU-116 or BLU-109 can penetrate the deck, even WWII AP bombs can penetrate the deck, modern bunker buster bombs can do better.
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[QUOTE=”panzerfeist1“]”She recalled that this is why, as far back as 2013, Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu warned that Israel would prevent the delivery of the S-300 system to the Assad regime.”
“The Israeli Air Force is able to fight the system “credibly if a full-blown war were started,” Dyer said but warned that Israel’s ability to prevent such a war via preemptive attacks would “shrink drastically if the S-300 is allowed to go operational in Syria.”
“Furthermore, Israel should not allow the S-300 to become operational, Dyer said, and advised the IAF to focus on taking out the missile launchers of the sophisticated system.” [/QUOTE]
If you paid close attention, those claims was said by Jennifer Dyer instead of Israel MoD spokesman.
The MoD spokesman instead said this:
Earlier this year Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman downplayed Israeli concerns over Russia’s purported plans to install the system in Syria.
“One thing needs to be clear: If someone shoots at our planes, we will destroy them. It doesn’t matter if it’s an S-300 or an S-700,” he said.Israel’s former Military Intelligence chief Amos Yadlin, who currently heads the influential Institute for National Security Studies in Tel Aviv, said months ago that he assumed the air force would work quickly to destroy the S-300, if it were indeed handed over to Syria.
“If I know the air force well, we have already made proper plans to deal with this threat. After you remove the threat, which is basically what will be done, we’re back to square one,” Yadlin told Bloomberg news in April
https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-warns-russia-deploying-s-300-in-syria-would-be-major-mistake/
They were also speaking about destroying the radars and missile launchers immediately even claiming they need extra aircraft if it was turned on.
Sorry for mixing the sources. This what they said about it 5 months ago
They also talking about taking it out when it is online
“The IDF might attack S-300 command elements using cruise missiles,” the US-based weapon expert told Arutz Sheva.
“To protect IAF strike-fighters (F-15, F-16, F-35) on their core mission, the IAF needs to escort them with electronic warfare aircraft to kill the S-300 radars and disrupt the electronic environment for the Syrian air defense system as a whole,” she continued.
The IAF pilots themselves will have to be trained on “evasive maneuvers and the use of defensive systems to confuse the S-300 missiles,” Dyer explained adding that the F-35 “will be an asset once it’s fully integrated into the IAF, because of its lower radar observability.”
“If the S-300 goes operational, that would force Israel to ramp up the ‘offensive’ level of preemptive attacks,” she concluded.
so it ín’t quite like what you claimed
@panzerfeist1 There wasn’t a single word about this:
“Israel is very highly against the entire system even being turned on that they were mostly talking about destroying the thing before it turns on”
Like you claimed
I have seen many reports from 5 months ago that Israel is very highly against the entire system even being turned on that they were mostly talking about destroying the thing before it turns on.
What reports ? “unnamed officials” from sputnik ?
This thread worth a look:
http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=28234&sid=2d28dc8c3e8bf8c42ac12fc6815a6741
https://youtu.be/hvgyiFCoG0U?t=1063
Look what is on presentation slide, 20.00 they have targets on radar screen, then 20.30 they have four targets on screen. And if you check in newspaper article:
Komandir odeljenja OASt vodnik I klase Ljubenković izveštava da ponovo nema kvalitetne odraze na daljinama manjim od 60 do 70 km i traži dozvolu da bude van pripravnosti, radi dodatnog podešavanja. Ne dozvoljavam mu, smatrajući da nemamo dovoljno vremena za to. Oko 20.15 časova naređujem da se četiri rakete stave na pripremu 1. I dalje na pokazivaču nemam odraze nijednog aviona koji je bliži od 60 km. Ljubenković ponavlja zahtev da mu dozvolim da bude van pripravnosti kako bi izvršio podešavanje prijemnika. Odobravam mu ali samo 10 minuta. Oko 20.30 časova dobijam radarsku sliku na mom pokazivaču. Možda čak i koji minut ranije. Odrazi ciljeva su bili veliki, ali nisu bili uobičajenog intenziteta već bledunjavi – anemični. Pojavilo se četiri do pet odraza na daljinama oko 25 km.
In 20.00 they have targets but they are far away (60-70km) and siganture of targets isn’t good, then in 20.15 because all targets are more then 60km away they turn off radar, then around 20.30 they activate P-18 again and four or five targets with big but strange signature (anemic as Dani said) they are ~25km away.
I try not to rely on newspaper as much since there is big possibility of the journalist misinterpreted what Zoltan Dany said.
Any way after i put the newspaper paragraph into Google translate, this is what i got:
The commander of the OASt Department of the I class, Ljubenkovic, reports that he does not have quality reflections again at distances less than 60 to 70 km and asks for permission to be out of readiness for further adjustment. I do not allow him, considering that we do not have enough time to do this. At 20.15 pm, I order four rockets to be set up for preparation 1. I still have no reflection of any aircraft that is closer than 60 km on the display. Ljubenkovic reiterates his request that I allow him to be out of readiness to perform the tuning of the receiver. I approve it but only 10 minutes. At about 20.30, I get a radar image on my pointer. Maybe even minutes ago. Reflection goals were large, but they were not normal intensity but bleak – anemic. There were four to five reflections on distances about 25 km.
I interprete that as Ljubenkovic want to readjust the radar because he can’t get quality reflection at distance less than 60-70 km. This seem to refer to the targets in general instead of some specific target. Obviously i could be wrong because Google translate isn’t 100% accurate.
Like you said, at 17:50 in the video, we can see “Pojava ciljeva” or “apparance of goals”. But it isn’t absolutely clear whether these targets are detected by the radar or from insider information. As Zoltan explained at 18:32 in the video, the head quater would sometimes send in sighting “turn on the radar, see what you see”.
https://youtu.be/hvgyiFCoG0U?t=1112
But i think the most interesting tibit comes at 19:16 in the video.
Among 4 frequency setting used L1, L2, L3, L4, only at the L1 (lowest frequency setting) these 4 targets suddenly show up. They were around 30 km distance and some are closer. P-18 operates in VHF between 140-180 Mhz
Detection range table bellow, F-117 was crusing between 6-8 km height, so it is still stealthy at least until 140 Mhz (0.14 Ghz):
I really don’t want to spam thread with F-117 but you probable don’t understand Serbian so you miss important things in presentation. For example in presentation you can see at 20.00 they have targets on radar which if you check newpaper article were 60-70km from P-18 and there were faint signatures (stealths).
I don’t think i have to check the newspaper when i have the present given by the man himself and the video has English subtitle. Yes, at 20:00 in video, Zoltan Dany said they have several targets on radar screen, but he also said these target are all in distance of 30 km and some are closers. Furthermore, He said that among 4 frequency setting L1, L2, L3, L4 of P-18 radar only on L-1 that these targets are shown. L-1 is 140 MHz (0.14 Ghz)
Ancic WASN’T in trailer when they had four faint returens at 60-70km distance. He enter later, little before 23km detection. They turn on and off P-18 which is reason for gap between 60-70km and 23km and of course F-117 is stealth which makes things even worse.
According to Zoltan Danny himself:
_At 8:31 Zoltan Danny explained that he used the lowest frequency setting L-1 at 140 Mhz to see F-117 clearly on radar screen
_ Between 18:32-19:09 Zoltan Danny explained that he received some intel (outsider information) from headquarters, on when to turn on his radar, as he had no target on his radar screen.
_ Between 19:43-20:02 Zoltan Danny said he detected several targets at distance 30 km and some are closer, but they are not inside engagement range. We are not sure if those targets are also F-117.
_ At 20:18, he talked about the exact time when the P-18 suddently acquire a clear track of one F-117 at azimuth 195 (as recorded by Djordje Anicic, this happened at 23 km away)
For P-18 detection range:
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http://progress.gov.ua/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Radary-yz-katalog-progress-2016-2017.pdf
http://www.aerotechnica.ua/en/index.php?id=products&prod=2&prodid=51
SNR-125 range is 80km (instrumental) and that is probable for Tu-16 size target (because that is what Soviets use as measure standard back then) so that would be 80km for 20m2:
http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.karte…rte032.en.html
Instrumental range is independent from target RCS. Beside, there are information suggest that F-117 was openning its weapon bay when SNR-125 acquired it as well. Nevertheless, you already saw the anechoic chamber data, there is really no point argue against it.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]262122[/ATTACH]
These fictions can tell for grandchildren
0.3 m2 number is fiction as it contradict with both anechoic chamber measurements and historical account of F-117.
https://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?145474-Su-57-News-and-Discussion-version_we_lost_count!&p=2453909#post2453909
Anechoic chamber measurements of F-117 metal model indicates RCS of -18 dBsm for frontal and tail aspect at frequency range from 400 Mhz-2 Ghz, what happens when you add RAM and raise frequency to 8Ghz?
In Serbia SNR-125 operates in X-band struggle to detect F-117 from 14 km, that mean F-117 real RCS as observed by SNR-125 was equal or less than -30dBsm (0.001m2).
P-18 detected F-117 from 23 km, so real F-117 RCS in VHF band was less than – 20dBsm.
F-22 made decades later by the same company will not be 300 times worse than F-117.
[QUOTE=”Krivakapa]
https://www.kurir.rs/vesti/drustvo/3…-bi-bio-oboren
Becuase Ancic (book writer) wasn’t radar operator on P-18 radar, nor he was in command trailer when P-18 operator reported he have weak returns on +50 or +60km distance (Zoltan said 60-70km) so he asked to turn off radar because they returns they have are far away. P-18 would be use for short period same as P-15, because of HARM[/QUOTE]
According to this source, he was in the command trailer of P-18 radar cabin.
The fact that the F-117A was downgraded from the third attempt is unquestionable. The first and second attempts to find the target in the air by the Nishan radar were unsuccessful. Sitting in the PRG view point toward the P-18 observation radar at one time on the azimuth 195, I notice three targets, 23 kilometers away. The next circle on the observation radar clearly indicates that the plane is approaching us. I follow him in the next round of the distance is 18 km. The operator of the observation radar P-18, Ljubenkovic’s guide through the GGS (voice-of-speech) reports that we have a goal. Obviously we are following the same situation in the air.
https://www.in4s.net/obaranje-f-117a-prekrajanje-istorije-vojni-vrh-celu-prevare-11/?lang=lat
It comes with a video as well
https://www.kurir.rs/vesti/drustvo/3…-bi-bio-oboren
Becuase Ancic (book writer) wasn’t radar operator on P-18 radar, nor he was in command trailer when P-18 operator reported he have weak returns on +50 or +60km distance (Zoltan said 60-70km) so he asked to turn off radar because they returns they have are far away. P-18 would be use for short period same as P-15, because of HARM.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]262014[/ATTACH]
At 100-150 MHz frontal rcs raised to 6 dBsm ( around 4 m2 )
At 300-350 MHz frontal rcs fluctuated between -6 to 0 dBsm ( around 0.25 – 1 m2 )
At 400MHz -1 GHz, there is a small frontal spike (about 1° wide) where rcs reach 0 dBsm (around 1m2)
P-18 operate in VHF band (range from 30 MHz-300 MHz) so i think 50-60 km detection range is reasonable.
P-15 operate in UHF band (range from 300 MHz to 3 GHz) so it is plausible to detect F-117 from 22-23 km if it transmit between 300-350 MHz, or if the operator is very lucky and look at 1-1.5° spike
SNR-125 operate in X-band and deteted F-117 at distance less than 14 km, that support the claim that F-117 RCS is -30 dBsm (0.001m2) in X-band.
P/s: I just checked, detection range of P-15 is 150 km, assumming this is detection range is against target with RCS of 10 m2, this radar will detect target will RCS of -30 dBsm (0.001m2) from 14 km and it will detect target with RCS = -20dBsm (0.01m2) from 26 km, Ancic and his crew see the F-117 from 23 km, so F-117 RCS at UHF is X with -20 dBsm > X > -30 dBsm
Any photos of the 100km AESA radar on armata? All I saw were small APS aparatures
He is trying to suggest that those tiny APS aperture will out range ToR-m1 radar
I think it is as paralay suggested and it is identifying aerial targets. More or less I am guessing there is a reason why anti-aircraft guns were being mounted on the tank
I literally just showed him why his number make no sense.