this person had asked for “to clear the matter up”. The person concerned was one X.X.Xxxxx (an ex-minister of education) and he had asked for £5,000.00.

Rare Aero also gave them details of another Indian who went to Jersey to seek out Rare Aero and who again, for a ‘small’ fee, could make the problem ‘disappear’. He was Mr. N***** P****, a councillor from South London. He also purported to act for a newspaper in India. Again, no response was received from the High Commission.
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Andy some things never change :rolleyes:

PM sent..

Andy,

Some answers to the best of my knowledge

If seventeen people were charged in relation to this alleged offence have any been prosecuted after all this long time? If so, what was the outcome? If they were not prosecuted, why not? Were the charges dropped?

As of 2007, they were chargesheeted. I havent followed the case after that. Judicial process in India can take a long time. If they had been acquitted, it hadnt been in the news, and i would welcome any such news to the effect.

Have the authorities in India contacted you about your intimate knowledge of this episode? If not, I wonder why not?

I have had contact in the initial days, when they needed photographs of the aircraft, it appeared that I had the only ones that they could tap. And I did provide them to the Police. I am sure this is known in the UK as well. Certainly a well known aircraft conservationist in the UK was told of this fact. What happened after that?, i have moved on, I have changed jobs, I have been travelling around, so I havent really had any contact after that. You would see I have fallen behind on updates on my site as well. But I promise you I will get the updates soon. if there is an acquittal, or dropping of charges, i will be the first to post that information here. I bat for both sides.

Why have the authorities not contacted the apparent current custodians of the Messerschmitt, I wonder, when their identity is clearly in the public domain? If they are so intent on pursuing alleged wrong-doing I would have thought this would have been a pretty obvious starting point.

My reading on this is – at this point they dont seem to be interested in recovering the aircraft – else they would have made some sort of contact. But they did seem intent on nailing the people involved in the ealrier transactions – I am fully in support of that.

Why have letters from Rare Aero to the Indian High Commission seeking to resolve matters all been ignored?

You have to realise that the Air Attache’s job is not to resolve issues raised in sundry letters that they get from individuals. the Air Attache’s job profile to the best of my knowledge involves many issues. You do agree with the kind of cooperation work that the attache is doing in the UK (coordinating exercises, aircraft procurement, training of indian pilots etc), addressing letters from private organisations individuals will be every low on the totem pole. i can vouch for the fact that they get dozens of letters, from enthusiasts asking for permission to do aircraft spotting, visiting airfields, to business entities asking for spares, or offering to supply spares, to musuems asking for manuals, etc etc.. hell even I get a lot of these emails that I just cant respond to. Who knows what the priority of the air attache is? Moreover what would have happened is that the Air Attache would not have had the authoritiy to repsond to this, he may have forwarded it to the Air HQ who are even .. well you get the point.

Wouldnt a letter to the actual people who filed the case be more helpful in clearing up things? Like one to the DGP Karnataka Police?

Also, might it not be the fact that those seventeen were possibly in receipt of payment for the said Messerschmitt (or at least pocketed the money when perhaps they were not entitled to do so) and the complainant was an agrieved individual who, perhaps, did not get his “cut”? Having worked in India on projects involving the acquisition and purchase of old aircraft I am not unaware as to how the “Indian system” works!.

you know it better than me. but if that was really the case (people getting cuts, some not getting it) then it is time that all of them pay the price for their greed. We cant have corruption continue in this country anymore. I take pride in the fact that if there was corruption (and by the police investigation – there seems to have been) – then i played a small part in supporting the investigation however small the part may be. So yes, maybe someone who didnt get a cut started this ruckus. But hey, if it forces the next guy to go straight, I am happy 🙂

You also have to understand, regardless of the guy who didnt get a cut who made the complaint – the entire police department of of the state has to be complicit in a conspiracy if the case had draged so long – that is so unfair to the PD.

I also note through Rare Aero’s statement the reference to individuals who contacted them promising to clear things “up for a fee”. And very happy they didnt succumb to that approach. IMO, they would do India a favour if they published the details of these contacts..

yes it sucks that Rare Aero and some of my own friends in UK are getting affected by it. But what to do – we are like this only (indian slang)

There are many examples of aircraft that have come out of India in the past thirty years – Spitfires, Tempests, the Hurricane, and others. They have survived only down to healthy neglect – this seeming to be the Indian way. Of the aircraft that remain in India, we do have to carefully consider what would have happened to them. Take the Firefly at Goa, or the excavated Spitfire VIII as examples. With the very greatest of respect, it can hardly be argued that they have been carefully conserved for the future. If that is what the Messerschmitt had to look forward to, then perhaps for the aircrafts sake, it is better that is is with an understanding owner.

Bruce,

From my point of view, I would take the Firefly in Goa or the Spitfire in Ambala that I can anyday go over and see to something sitting in UK that I can never hope to see. Plain and simple. Till the time the field picks up in India and the money flows in – these aircraft are still around and will under go a restoration when possible.

anyway thats just part of it.

Yes you are welcome to export which ever aircraft you want – but follow the law – plain and simple. The next lot of Aircraft exporters /middlemen (Sadly my own countrymen) will look over their shoulders due to this episode , and so will anyone looking towards procuring such examples from India.

With regard to the reporting in the Indian press, I do wonder why no-one ever asked Jagan – who did and indeed does know what happened to the aircraft! It would not have been difficult to trace the owners or the aircraft, yet no-one ever did. One has to wonder why….? I’m not incidentally suggesting that Jagan has any involvement in this – just that it should have been relatively easy for the authorities to trace the aircraft.

The moment the aircraft went out of the country, the authorities focused on what they could do easily – nail the people they could and by the link to the indictment above – they did.

I think that the Indian museums need to show that they can compete on a world stage, and treat their aircraft in the same way as western museums do, or they are fated forever to be on the back foot, with collectors seeking a better future for them.

If this sounds negative, then I do apologise – I just felt it needed to be said….

i have no objection to that. just respect the local laws while you are at it.

I need to stop jumping from forum to forum, but since the allegations of “Indians cant seem to preserve it” , “Indians cant seem to do this” etc come again .. here i go again.

From the links shown its a matter of historical record that the IAF didnt move fast enough to save it, however the guys who did save it seem to have the resources to put it back into the air so its all good for the 109…………

The aircraft came to the IAF’s notice in 2002. I was the one who took the photos and tipped them off. The IAF had made moves to enquire about the college and the aircraft just dissappeared after that. dont blame the IAF, they would have got it. If not then the HAL Museum was in line. dont fear too much about it. Yes it wouldnt have made it into the air but it would have been in a musuem in India.

I understand the aviation enthusiast’s desire to see a messerschmitt in the air, but respect for local law (of any country) trumps the need to see any warbird return to air by any means. (I will come to this again later).

A good read about dealings like this is the book Peter Vacher wrote, then some opinions might be changed.

Cees , dont even compare Peter Vacher’s due dilligence to this. Peter VAcher did everything by the book and he was rewarded for it. You dont see any pending cases in India on that Hurricane – do you? The IAF examined the aircraft decided they dont want to deal with it. There you go. Did the guy (NOTE : NOt the final owners) who bought the Me-109 from the college did the same? I dont think so. He was advised by the police at all stages not to export the aircraft till the case was resolved. He went into hiding clamingin the aircraft was still in india.

There is nothing to dispute in what Rare Aero had stated. They think they ahve a clean and open export with the documentation. good for them. As long as they have not broken Indian laws or UK laws, they are in the good.

Tell it to the seventeen guys indicted for this in October 2007

Rare Aero’s statement does disservice in alleging there are other reasons in stalling the procurement. Suggestions in the statement include : Political Motivations, Corruption issues to make the issue go away and Irresponsible media reporting. Thats their opinion and they are welcome to it.

Political motivations may involve throwing charges, but for an independent team to investigate this and decide that there can be charges filed – you need more than political motivations.

As far as irresponsible media reporting? maybe – especially when they were valuing the aircraft at too high a price – but I dont think they can lie about things that a case was filed, an investigation was in progress and finally that charges were filed.