PPl here just dont want to understand the difficulties involved in the process. As highsea says firstly, its impossible that any cfm56 core were unaccounted for[expect the two lost in 83]. While the comm airline engine are much diff from fighter jets.

I will again quote his reply their.

In this case, all evidence points to the WS-10 to be a chinese version of AL-31.

Points:

1. China has acquired AL-31s from Russia in fairly large quantities for J-11 and J-10.

2. J-10 was re-engineered specifically for AL-31. You want people to believe that China reverse engineered the hot section of the CFM-56 (which they only had 2 copies of at the time), and then mated it to a reverse engineered fan section and afterburner/nozzle/TV section of the AL-31. From an engineering standpoint, this assertion is ludicrous. Not only was the hot section technical data withheld from CFMI/SNECMA by GE, but Russian and American engineering philosophies are radically different. And after this wondrous acheivement, the engines weighed exactly the same, were identically balanced, had identical frame locations, plumbing, electrical systems, FADEC, etc….

3. Even the F-16 common engine bay does not mean that the GE and Pratts are interchangable. Differences in airflow, wiring and plumbing prevent interchangability, yet you would have us believe that China has managed to build this morphodite engine that is perfectly interchangable with the AL-31. They even can be used side by side in the J-11. And all this with no experience, and only 2 copies of a commercial CFM-56 hot section to work with.

4. The only examples of CFM-56 available to China are on 737’s and A320’s. This means they are commercial variants, which are radically different than their military counterparts, and they are all accounted for. The only CFM-56’s that are not accounted for are the two engines they were sold in 1983, which they have stated were destroyed by fire.

5. China’s only service facilities for the CFM-56 are under supervision by PW or GE. Replacement engines come directly from GE under strict licensing agreements. GE is currently engaged in reengineering this same engine for a Chinese regional jet project. If China was capable of this reengineering, they wouldn’t need GE on the ARJ21.

6. China has not demonstrated the capability to develop an advanced turbofan engine.

7. There are no public statements, hi-res photos, or anything else available that would lead anyone to believe that the WS-10 is anything else than a copy of the AL-31. Your “evidence”, which is a jpg image with some chinese characters and the letters “CFM-56” can be reproduced in about 5 minutes with any graphics application.

I suppose it’s fashionable to claim that these new toys are based on American tech, given the poor performance of Russian equipment in the last 20 years or so. There is no doubt that China would like to have the ability to build/repair their new Flankers and J-10 without relying on Russia for spares.

And there is no doubt that they have been actively pursuing western aerospace tech. But there is no evidence that they have been successfull anywhere near the level you are claiming, and from an engineering viewpoint, it makes no sense when Russian assistance is there for the asking.

I am done with this assumption game, where chinese here claim every thing which even hasnt be confirmed neutral source or highsea says a credible explanation.

And when did ws-10 had anything to do with fc-1?

Ok. WS-13. Right.

Highsea is also **DEAD ** wrong; In fact his reason is hardly objective other than the usual pretense of such. Russia’s cooperation comes with a price. That price is to make China keep buying Russian products.

Telll me, what is the financial motivation for the Russians to help the Chinese make their own engine

…when they have already refused to grant a license for the AL-31F…

That’s quite idiotic and stupid. You refused to give the Chinese formal rights to manufacturing the engine, but then you want to go behind and suddenly help them?

Why did the Russians refuse to grant a license?

#1 Because they are scared that the Chinese will eventually compete with them in that business.

#2 Because they want to keep selling their engines as long as possible.

Now tell me, why would the Russians suddenly help the Chinese make their engines, when it is contradiction to the first and the second?

His statement—

“China gets way more military cooperation from Russia than from the US. “

Only applies to certain clear limits. Read #1 and #2 above. And it is a fact that

Russia witholds many key technologies from China because it fears Chinese power and competition.

He only meant to say that, china has no exposure to US engines. So how can any one than claim it to be based on f-110. Simple reasoning. I believe that whatever china has learnt or developed will be on russian exposure of various projects under way. Ppl do learn either taught to or not. But to do that one needs something on hand, which is AL-31 & not F110 which chinese would want others to believe.

There is nothing objective there. I think tphuang answered all of them very well, especially because he has the aid of a Congressional report to back him up.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/house/hr105851-html/ch10bod.html#anchor6631169

“Defense Department officials were concerned because the CFM-56 hot sections are identical to those used in the engines that power the U.S. F-16 and B-1B military aircraft.88

The PRC later claimed that the CFM-56 engines were destroyed in a fire.89 More likely, however, is that the PRC violated the U.S. end-use conditions by reverse engineering part of the CFM-56 to develop a variant for use in combat aircraft.90″

Well Mr.Highsea doesnt bother about ifs & buts, if u think u can argue better, then go to WAB or DT forums. I will quote his last sentence of his last post on the thread. The guy is very knowledgeable.

The burden of proof is not on me, it’s on you for making the assertion. China gets way more military cooperation from Russia than from the US. Given the licensing deals for J-11, etc, there is no one in the aerospace industry that I am aware of, that would give your claims any credibility whatsoever. IOW, it’s a bunch of wishful thinking BS. Sorry, kiddo.

I’m not going to bother with the rest of your response, there is no content there to reply to.

What ws-10 is f-110 class, says who? Did china ever had exposure US fighter engines ever?

PS: There was this debate in other forum too, on the same subject. Here is the LINK . Do read Highsea comments on the subject. [pretty objective]

Good for you. You can start a thread on India’s morals and ethics in the general discussion forum. Stop being so jealous and insecure and let us get back into the subject here which Chinese exports.

There are many threads in these forum, there is no reason for you and your whole clan to be here calling us names.

You pretty much bashed yourselves with this naked and silly aggression borne of envy.

U have lost it :D.

Instead on wasting bandwidth on bashing India, why dont u put forward the gr8 reviews of chinese AC exports of various countries it has been exported. Sameer & GJ has been asking this simple Q, & u are trying to be smart & avoiding the same.

I’ve never seen more envious people in my life. So jealous that they are “asking questions” already answered.

Delusion minds :D. What is there to be envious of chinese, who are big importer of russian weapons.

Question : Who’s making the new Al-41’s ? India are said to have alredy contaced its makers.

Dont remember reading such news. After getting ToT on AL-31FN, where is the need for AL-41?