I counted 74 kills/damages caused by Iranian Phoenix, about 90% of which are confirmed kills.

What do you mean by confirmed?

Did you see the wreckages? do you have gun camera footage of all the 79 supposedly aircraft shot down?

i guess you have 79 pictures like these

I really don’t see what’s ethically wrong with securing our border and making it that much harder for people to cross it illegally.

I agree that drugs are not solely an internal problem, my point was to say that I am not currently focusing on the internal issues, but rather the foreign policy element of the problem.

i agree there is nothing wrong patrolling your border what is wrong is exploting illegal workers who are working for you own well being when you entice them, legalize them is the true human way of dealing with the problem.

I guess also everything is not only the fault of the US and great part of the problem is Latin America`s fault to adress the wealth distribution problem but the main problem i see is the US has become an obstacle for Latin America`s development with such miope policies that is the reason Brazil and the whole of south america do not want to sign a free trade agreement with the US, NAFTA does not work because the model has not passed into a more realistic economic and democratic integration model, and while that model continues like that is unlikely Brazil and Argentina and the rest of south america want to become part of that agreement.

😉

Obviously the drug problem needs to be addressed internally as well, as in combating drug use and cleaning out the dealers and supply chains, but that’s not a foreign policy issue from that standpoint. I was focusing primarily on foreign policy, not internal issues.

The operative word is “illegal”. So there is nothing wrong with incarcerating or deporting them. I’d opt for the latter, the former puts an unnecessary burden on the criminal justice system and the taxpayer.

Large-scale fines could help to stem some of that, perhaps in the form of income tax evasion charges and fines, plus having ot pay the back taxes you would have paid had the workers been legal.

I have nothing against immigrants from any nationality, provided they have the courtesy to do it legally. If you choose the illegal route, then I have no sympathy for you and you should be deported immediately.

I also have no problems with a guest worker plan, but again, that’s a legal solution. If you choose to still enter illegally, the deportation machine is waiting for you.

I view the illegal immigration problem as a potential solution for the homeless. I’d propose to set up housing for the homeless and provide them with the jobs vacated by the illegals. It cleans up the streets, gives these people jobs and housing, and gets the illegals out of the country.

In theory it sounds very good but reality is not like that because drugs are not an internal problem.

The US demand for drugs fuels corruption in the police forces of Mexico, central America and Colombia and other south american countries.
Drug related violance in the US-Mexican border is fueled by the US demand for drugs.

Illegal imigration of workers is fueled by the US companies offering jobs and because the same companies working in Latin america specially in Mexico and Central America pay less to their latin American workers so if you see those companies want to reduce salaries in the US and Latin America and there also you have outsourcing, that problem only can be addressed by NAFTA if it tries to follow more an EU economic integration model rather than a chaotic and profit making policy not by making walls in the border that any way will be crossed because the illegal workers business is profitable to the US companies hiring them as well for the smugglers so there is lots of money involved the only way to stop it is by political and economical means not by a wall patrolled by bunch of racist Minuteman vigilatees

I guess UCAVs, Tanks against Civilians well is a good match 😉 believe me the problem of immigration cannot be solved in a globalized world without addressing uneven development if you have poor latin american countries and a wealthy US there is going to be illegal workers for a very long time.

First off, profuse apologies, this thread got massively sidetracked and I certainly helped it along. So, no worries, I’ll take the time tomorrow to split this into two threads, preserving the integrity of the initial debate, and moving our off-topic ramblings into a new thread.

Moving on!

That’s partly the point, it’s strictly hypothetical. Guess you won’t be voting for me, eh? 😀

To gain control over the illegal immigration problem.

SOC i think your Geopolitics are wrong.

Illegal immigration won`t stop in that way let`s see some hypotetical and real examples.

You can have UCAVs and Predators doing some patrolling in the Mexican-US Border and then what?

Drugs is a consumption-demand problem the US is addicted to drugs thanks to people like Janis Joplin`s motto of SEX , DRUGS and ROCK and ROLL besides your culture of rappers.

Already the illegal workers are mistreated , cheated and living in poverty accross the US and many incarcerated just by the fact they are illegal.

Many illegal workers do pay taxes.

UCAVs can patrol for drug dealers, stop them but while there is corruption and demand man believe me you won`t stop drugs even having F-22s and M-1s patrolling.

Must likely out come well Drugs will continue flowing, many people will continue overstaying their visas and more poeple will die in the US-Mexican border due to the increasing Racist view upon latin immigrants.

Big corporations will continue using illegal workers simply because they are cheaper and that won`t stop all the explotation of the illegal immigrants.

The solution is to my point of view a common Military program with Mexico to patrol the border to stop Terrorists, change the cultural values of the US youth, a common currency in NAFTA including central america and increase in outsourcing to Mexico and Central America. Work for a realistic immigration program with Mexico including free movement of people and a standardization of salaries in Mexico and central america with the US and Canada, the true reason people immigrates is because you have the same companies in the US and Latin America paying two different salaries lower in Latin America and higher in the US for the same jobs offered by the same companies.

I know that UCAVs are not the solution you need to work to legalize all the illegal workers to know who is a potential terrorist but the vast majority of illegal workers are just looking for jobs and if you offer them a chance to legalize their situation all will want to be legalized and have a proper work permit and pay taxes.

Any way illegal workers contribute economically in the US but are the less protected workers blamed for all the ills that the US has created by it self, the basic theory behind arming the border is Hitler`s mein kamp.

That double standard already propagates itself in US foreign policy. We give Most Favored Nation status to Communist China yet embargo the snot out of Communist Cuba because they’re a Communist dictatorship. What the hell?

If we were to rewrite US foreign policy, it should resemble this:
-Renewed relations with Iran, Cuba, and North Korea
-Expanded relations with Russia, China, and India
-Eliminate relations with Mexico, Colombia, Israel, Formosa, Venezuela, and Pakistan
-Reduced relations with the EU and Japan

-No US troops in South Korea or Japan
-Fewer troops in the Middle East
-No US troops in Europe

man all the porposals you give are so unrealistic except the ones that want to eliminate bases and troops stationed outside the US.

to my point of view the US is unrealistic in many foreign policies.

outsourcing it is impossible to stop, migration from latin america is impossible to stop, stop relations with Israel? why? Israel is a ally of the US.

the US current adminstration is putting the last nails to the US imperial casquet.

It`s oil dependant policy, intervensionist policies, isolationist policies are destroying the US and at the end will create more troubles than solve ones.

they should promote Solar power, wind power ecofriendly technologies , educate the new immigrants even the illegal and just return the ones with criminal record , promote economic democracy not puppet governments, increase Research and development investment in the US and specially in Latin america through outsourcing.

Force Japan to open the japanese markets and Force China to respect intelectual property and democracy.

Arm the border to do what? after exploting the illegal workers and paying low salaries in latin america treat the poor as criminal? 😀 is not it going to lean more people to Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez`s side?

well but everyone is untitled to an opinion