Hopefully we can put to bed the myths surrounding the ‘F-15 shot down’ and ‘Annual Insp C/W’ images that Flogger posted on the ‘MiG’ thread. Why do I feel like I’m banging my head against a brick wall? Goodness knows what Flogger will respond with?

Flogger wrote:

On the Pictures you can see an F-16 wreckage in Serbia, an F-15 shot down in Yugoslavia over Sarajevo Bosnia the story comes from the newspaper Vojska and a MiG-29 wreckage with writings in english what made many think this is just a fake

The image of the F-16 engine?

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=69713&stc=1&thumb=1

This is from F-16CG 88-0550. This was brought down by the 250th Air Defence Rocket Brigade on the 2nd May 1999. The remains of this aircraft are now in the Yugoslav Aeronautical Museum. The pilot was rescued from inside Serbia. The pilot nearly managed to coax 88-0550 out of Serbian airspace, but the combat damaged engine quit and he was forced to eject..

Image of the F-15:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=69714&stc=1&thumb=1

Flogger pick up a cutaway drawing of an F-15 and tell me where the fuel vent pipes are located on the wings. Have you ever seen an aircraft dump/vent fuel? That is exactly what you are seeing on this still. Only the likes of Venik can turn it into an aircraft on fire or blowing smoke!

Captain Spinetta of the 493rd FS takes up the story:

“Early in the crisis, news organizations, reported seeing two F-15 Eagles divert into Tuzla with ‘battle damage’. They reported seeing ‘smoke’ as the aircraft came in for an emergency landing. Quite untrue! Don’t believe everything you read in newspapers and magazines that covered the conflict. The two F-15’s (from my squadron – the 493rd Fighter Squadron, ‘The Grim Reapers’, based at RAF Lakenheath) were dumping fuel to reduce their gross weight so they could land because of a small mechanical problem. One jet made a precautionary landing because a back-up hydraulic pump had ceased to function. The other jet went along for mutual support. Fighters never go anywhere alone.

Because they wanted to deter any expansion of the conflict to Bosnia, the Army quickly pointed out to the news media that the F-15s were not flying combat missions out of Camp Eagle. The only folks stationed at Camp Eagle were ‘Stabilization Forces’ (SFOR). The Army stressed that their sole function was to ensure peace and stability in Bosnia. They were not involved with any fighting in Kosovo and did not want any hostilities to expand into their area of responsibility.

We flew maintenance troops into Camp Eagle to fix the jets quickly. I happened to be flying a combat air patrol mission overhead when they took-off. The Camp Eagle commander, an army general, wanted to give a morale boost to his troops so he encouraged our pilots to make a maximum performance take-off. To accomplish this, you accelerate on the deck to 400-plus knots before pulling the jet skywards. You stand the aircraft on its tail and watch the world get small as you accelerate in the vertical. The Army commander emphasized this was a ‘tactical’ departure. Occasionally, he said, tensions still flared up. You can never be sure that all shoulder-launched SAM’s have been removed from circulation. So, he ‘ordered’ the Eagle pilots to avoid the potential threat, the only option being a vertical climb to avoid flying over the base perimeter. The two Eagle pilots were happy to indulge the general’s request. As they executed their max performance takeoffs, each pumped out a string of chaff and flares. Apparently, the sound and light show was better than the last ten Guy Fawkes fireworks displays combined. I watched their take-off from my CAP overhead and can attest they were impressive.

Unfortunately, the flares started a small brush fire off the end of the runway. After all the Army’s hospitality, we paid it back by setting their base ablaze. One of the pilots felt guilty and called back to the base. Rather than being angry, the Army commander was ecstatic. He was happy his troops got a little entertainment. He said the fire crews needed something to do anyway to break up the monotony of peacekeeping. Someone of the ground took a few pictures of the takeoffs and converted them into screen-savers for their computers.”

‘MiG-29 wreckage with writing in english’:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=69715&stc=1&thumb=1

Flogger, that my friend is the remains of an F-15 external fuel tank (600 gallon) from the air combat that took place on 26th March 1999 over Bosnia. Captain Hwang flew F-15C serial 86-0156 and Captain McMurray flew F-15C, serial 84-0014. The two USAF F-15s were on a Deny Flight patrol over Bosnia when they detected two MiG-29s heading towards them from Serbian airspace. They engaged the two MiG-29s flown by Major Peric and Captain Radosavljevic (wingman). Captain Hwang flying 86-0156 was accredited with both MiG-29 kills with two of his AMRAAMs. Major Peric successfully ejected and escaped and evaded through the Republic of Srpska. Captain Radosavljevic was unfortunately killed in combat. Both MiG-29s came down in Bosnia. The more intact of the two airframes was threat evaluated by the US military. The cockpit/nose was near intact and both MiGs fell with their R-73s and R-27s albeit a bit bent. Part of one of the MiGs is now in the ready room of the 493rd at RAF Lakenheath, England.

As both F-15 pilots closed on the two MiG-29s they combat jettisoned their external tanks. A Reuters news team found at least one of the combat jettisoned tanks and produced a near 4 minute video. Unfortunately the footage ran around the world as being wreckage from a MiG-29. It wasn’t until first light the following day that the same Reuters team filmed the first of the MiG-29s that came down in Bosnia. The English stencil is simply “ANNUAL INSP C/W” (Annual Inspection) (C/W stands for Complied With). The video is near four minutes long and shows close ups of the tank fins, vent/feed pipes and manufacturers welded plate stating ‘600 US gallons’. That single still went all round the Internet on some web sites as ‘proof positive’ that an F-15 had been shot down. Venik still has this one single still on his webpage and refuses to upload any other images from the video that shows nothing more than a 600 gallon fuel tank. He even gave an F-15 kill to Major Peric. Major Peric gave an interview in which he divulged that neither he or his wingman fired any missiles during the engagement. I even offered to Venik a copy of the tape a few years ago. Not surprisingly he didn’t take me up on the offer. He even ignores the existence of Lt Col Peric’s interview.

From Captain Hwang’s account:

“About this time, both Boomer (TJ note; Boomer is Captain McMurray) and I got good ID on the target in our own cockpit and, with threat hot towards us inside 30 nm, decided to blow off the AWACS/clearance-to-engage restriction and go for it! Target was now inside 30 nm, and I directed Boomer to target the single group. I broke lock and went back to search in 40-nm scope and 120 sweep. The target check turns towards northwest (about 14L aspect) and descends to high teens. Boomer and I checked about 30¡ left to northeast for cutoff. This check turn slung me aft in the formation, so I stroke it up to full AB to get more line abreast. I called “Combat 1, arm hot” and saw Boomer’s wing tanks come off with bright flames under the wing. Pretty impressive! I was well over the Mach when I punched my tanks off, and the jet jumped up abruptly (you can see it in the HUD). Took a quick look back to see if my stabs were still intact,…. “

TJ

F-16 picture not a myth because the aircraft was indeed shot down your own words, MiG-29 picture not a Myth because the original pictures came from the western Media claiming it as MiG-29 but the Serbians claimed no Serb MiG-29 has letters in English however Western Media claimed as a MiG-29 i said it was fake however i have no the complete image to say it was an F-15C Fuel Tank image or German MiG-29 wreckage to affirm any thing beyond what i read, in fact some reports claimed that the western Media assumed it was a German MiG-29 the only aircraft according to them that had letters in english.

F-15 picture most likely a Myth because the most likely explanation is fuel plumes very unlikely battle damage without a good wreckage no posibility to confirm from the picture can we see is fuel or is smoke? no we cannot however it seems the most likely it was fuel.

I totally agree with your sentiments, and i would go as far to say, that a lot of unessary deaths and suffering has occurred because of this…on both sides, and most unfortunately cilvilians.

I am not against the war, although i am against the deceipt and contempt shown to us by our political masters, and how the campaign has been run.

Any idiot should of known, that Islamic fanatics would flood into Iraq, and have their chance to take on the ” the great satan”, and that we would be bogged down in a guerrila war…we cant win, politically at least.

The guerillas have ample backing, from the old baathist network, and from both syria and Iran, whom have grasped the oppertunity with open hands, to try and humiliate the US, by backing the insugency.

Coming to another ” vietnam” Anology. I foresee, that in the near future, both syria and Iran will be attacked, as were cambodia and laos in SE Asia. AS it seems these are where guerrillas are crossing into iraq, and where they are being supplied.

Militarily, this will need to be adressed, if a succesfull defeat of the insurgency is to take place…the denial of these “safe areas”, to the guerrillas.

I feel that, Irans Nuclear aims..either civilian or military, just cranks up the ratchet further, and brings closer an American responce.

Likewise on the Syrian side, where Damascus, still backs terroism both in lebanon and israel/palestine, giving the us reason to raise the Anti.

Could not the dicision makers in washington foreseen this? or did they just bury there heads in the sand, because the whole thing had taken on a momentum of its self.. and for which reason we have lost the iniative, and are reacting to events rather than the coalition in charge of them.

I fear for the future, because i dread to say this..there is worse to come :confused:

Spurg :diablo:

Israel`s fight is a fair fight, it`s the fight for survival and live in few words to exist after all crimes done by many nations against the Israelies in the past, however all nations have the same right, the right to have a land and live in it and defend the right to exist as Israel has.

In the real world there is a need for armies and air forces nevertheless also there is the very real fact in a nuclear war we all are going to be loosers nuclear weapons are a threat to all humanity not only to the US or Russia or any nuclear power

No nation has the right to have weapons that are a threat to all humanity in general as a spieces.

All nations have the right to have the political and justice system they deem is proper for their own you can not impose democracy by force.
The problem with the US-Iran-Israel issue is we are playing with the possiblity of a nuclear war and the US is gambling that they will stop the spreading the Nuclear proliferation and at the same time continue dictating and spreading a political, economic and cultural system by force.

Both sides should ban nuclear weapons but only through diplomacy it`s possible because the US is uncapable to control all the world`s nuclear arsenals and the US even with it`s complete Air Supremacy is uncapable of controling the minds and hearts of many nations just by force. You need cooperation and diplomacy and what the US is doing is simply becoming the common factor that is uniting the Islamic world against the western world.

I totally agree, but this a military aviation forum, and not a platform for everybody with a grudge against the US. i am sick of the rantings from people fuelled with blinkered views of the world.
I see ivan, that you have a serb flag? well, i should congratulate you for the systematic slaughter you inflicted on your own muslim population. And now, just because the US stopped your greater serbia, you see the world through tinted glasses……i can live with that! just dont expect me too agree with you 😮

Any invader always needs to destroy the enemy Air Force either in the air or the ground the US air Supremacy allows them to do that, their problem comes when you need to control the minds of your enemy in the Iraq war the US is making the same mistakes it did in Vietnam and the most likely outcome it will loose the war, invading Iran only will complicate the US economy, Terrorism and the desire for many US adversaries in the third war to buy or make nukes.
The US ideology that Democracy and all it`s liberal policies will be well accepted goes in contradicction with a culture and religion where an Arab (islamic) caliphate has deep roots in in the minds of many muslim nations.
Air power is good to defeat an opposing air Force, bomb your enemy but useless in guerrilla warfare specially in Urban warfare where each and every citizen is a potential enemy, the US should work more with the Arab Goverments and have a clean image as the EU is doing instead of thinking an F-15E bombing civilians will give them the victory, even microUAV won`t give them the Victory you need to gain the minds of subdits as Spain did in Latin America with the Catholic Religion

I am not American, but your last post is a sample of moronic anti-US propaganda, that even the Russians , Chinese or Indians would consider too stupide and too primitive to use.

When the f**k did US want to invade these countries?

Do you know Mc Arthur? or when the US invaded Russia during the Soviet Revolution?
do you know when the US invaded Granada, Panama, the Philipines,Iraq, Aghanistan, Mexico, supported dictatorships in South america and in the middle east.

Read History and you will see the US has invaded several weak nations and thought in even nuking China during the Korea War, Cuba during teh Cuban Missiles Crisis, but all the other nuclear powers are the same ask England China, France or Russia we should ban Nuclear weapons out of the earth.