Luckily for your hobby, Strevitel, that you’ve started this Flogger thread here.

It seems that you can no longer continue your insanely long and irrelevant MiG-23 thread at CDF since the powers-that-be had finally enough of you.

Now, Strevitel, you should have known better than to employ the same crazy droning and insulting tactics in your argument with Tom Cooper that finally broke the camel’s back at CDF. Cooper writes books on the subjects of MiGs, for chrissakes! 😀

Well, best of luck anyways 🙂

Man if you call insults giving links and have a different set of sources, that is not the definition for insulting your definition is not correct, i did not insult Tom Cooper, i neved insulted Tom Cooper in fact he never did it as i neved did it the only thing i did is give him links and cited books that opposed his opinions but in a polite way; I have not insulted any one in CDF .

In fact Golden Dragon i am not an aviation expert beyond aircraft recognition amd some degree of aircraft history beyond my knowledge is very limited but i have training as a Historian since i studied archelogy and i know diversity of sources does not mean insulting, i know science as history unless if you have not a completly contradictory statement with reality and evidence a theory can not be eliminated.

I never call people names, neither say bad words i just simply give different opinions but i have cortesy and politeness also i use proper English.

Acceleration is proportional to thrust/weight ratio.

F-15 and F-16 have about 20% better t/w at sea level.

Because of turbofan engines in F-15,16 fighters , this advantage is not so great at medium level and at high altitudes Mig has small advantage.

Israeli report probably reffer to higher altitudes.

Regarding Mig-23 flight control system, the same system also has F-14 (spoilers and tailerons) and nobody said that it is sluggish.
By the way,F-14 had wing loading of 495 kg/m2 at T.O. with 4 Sparrows.

is not drag another element in the equation? for example the MiG-25 has low TWR but has a Max speed of Mach 2.8 in it`s fighter version and Mach 3.2 in the reccon version, also the MiG-23 is a fast aircraft which has a very powerful engine and swept wings

which is very interesting
my comments:
1) I am surprised that despite several photos of the Israely Mig-23, there was no comment about it

2) about G-loads and airspeed
while it is true that there is no “direct” connection between them, they are nevertheless connected. It is the airspeed that creates the lift that causes the acceleration=> G-load. And the high angle of attack required to produce the high lift creates high drag, which reduces the speed and the lift and the acceleration. Every aircraft has an airspeed-g envelope, which shows how many G-s it can puul at any speed. The best speed for combat is the “corner velocity” – the point on theenvelope where the aircraft can sustain a certain acceleration without slowing down. It is not the maximum G for this aircraft, but the optimum for combat.

3) the argument about which aircraft is better, based on published maximum G-s, rreminds me of a story
A young Israeli Mirage pilot, who flew by the rules, could not understand why he always lost in training combats. Then one day he flew in a two sitter with one of the old hands , who never accepted defeat. To his surprise he sow the veteran pilot pulling a lot more than the permitted G-s (and off course winning). From that day on he was not a luser any more…
So much for quoting manuals………..

The only thing i know about the MiG-23ML own by Israel is that it was a former Syrian Air Force that landed in Israel after it`s pilot defected.
It was evaluated and the it was found to have better acceleration than the F-16 and F-18 and now is the Israeli Air Force Museum.

I have been reading quite a lot of articles on ACIG regarding the Mig-25 and how it was used by Iraq. The Mig-25 seemed much more successfull than either the Mig-23 or the Mig-29 in GWI. It did not shoot down any allied aircraft except a single F-18, but when it came to Aerial Engagements, it could easily decide how the engagement will go with the slower F-15s and such, and not only that but most of the AAMs fired at it missed and it could easily escape. As it appears it caused quite a few coalition strikes to abort and such.

Now the question is, how effective are these high altitude aircraft in AA combat, now lets say you give the Mig-25 something like the N011M/Zaslon-M radar, and R-37 and R-77, how would it do against slower and lower flying fighters like Su-30MKs, F-15Cs, and etc. If it flies something like m2 at 20000m with like 4 R-77s, then an aircraft like the Su-30MK flies at 15000m with similar number of AAMs, it will have a hard time intercepting it and shooting it down, it would have to get very close to it to fire it’s R-77s because they would have to climb up high and then hit a really fast aircraft.

I feel that aircraft is the MiG-31M