“Updated Saturday, June 17, 2000 3:09:30 PM“, 😮 red that too, you have been alarmed when it comes to data about Indian MKI. 😉

Sometimes it comes to different figures. Some using naked empty and others empty equipped, which is always higher. Empty eqipped means flight-ready with crew in cockpit. But without JP and weaponsload. In German it is “Rüstgwicht” and payload is carried.

Flanker man figures say everything 34,000kg max weigh, 10,000, fuel and 8,000 weapons for the Su-30MKI make numbers

this FAS(unupdated) and globalsecurity are wrong on MKI weights.

Why? if you give me the empty weight in other links we can get to an agreement but you have not provided me with empty weight, and the books i have read also claimed 17,700kg.

Here is a picture of a heavy Thrust vectoring system but that is not used in the Su-30MKI, in fact the Su-30MKI is a much lighter system, Yahoo when the russian built the Su-30MKI they tried ans succeeded in building a light thrus vectoring system also the MKI has non russian avionics and is quit modern so we can expect a lighter aircraft than the one you want to portrait

Even the basic Su-27UBK weighs 17700KG and it is rated to carry 4000KG. than add 400KG extra for BAR radars, 1200KG for TVC and canards and over the top of that structural reinforcement to carry extra 4000KG. Why do you think Su-30MKK Maximum takeoff is over 38Tons(10Ton fuel and 8Ton weopons) and you come with 20 Ton empty weight.
the new russian Su-27SK program want to increase Maximum take off to 34Tons to carry full 8000KG and Su-27SK carries lighter radar compared to BAR, no second seat, no TVC or Canards.

Yahoo that is an expeculation and it is also wrong the Su-30MKK weights at max 34,500kg if you rest around 17,000kg of fuel and ordenance you get around 17,500kg of empty weight, just give me the empty weight

As most of us, why not. But there are a lot of misunderstandings around, which create verbal wars.
Corner-speed is the speed, where a fighter reach its optimum turn-rate.
Below this you have not enough lift to pull max G-value. Above that you may keep max G, but with higher speed your turn radius gets higher too.
Do you remember the “power-egg” = in the horizontal and the vertical.
The Canards are of help to keep nose up (extra lift) and speed low.
Despite that you always start a turn with higher than corner-speed. The more G you pull, the more you will slow down by that. Even the best fighter runs out of thrust by that sooner or later and becomes a sitting duck. That is the way MiG-29 nailed the Super Hornet down. At the start the SH with higher weight have the better kinetic energy-level. When pulling up nose for turning, the SH has to find a fast firing-solution, otherwise it runs out of thrust very fast and the nose goes down, just to be nailed by the MiG-29 with higher thrust/weight-ratio.
When it comes to lift, the wingload (kg/qm or lb/sqft) is important, the lower that value, the better the agility of a fighter.
The normal Su-27 offers the best combination of wingload and thrust/weight ratio and is not nose-heavy. The Su-35 is nearly as agile at heigher weights.
In this case is higher weight = higher combat performance, similar to F-15E to F-15A/C related to multirole equipment.
The Su-37/30MKI adds to this TVC agility, which is at its best in the higher speeds, where the Canards are just more drag. About the shortcomings of that I wrote before.
Clever pilots avoid high Gs, when ever possible. At 6 Gs you start loosing your vision (grey-out) no longer in need of your color displays 🙂 and at 9g you suffer from black-out, the fighter fly you and no chance to fight back.
High Gs in modern combat are a defensive manouver!!!!
When it comes to high Gs your speed or/and height drops (when adding kinetic energy) in an alarming rate. Without speed your are dead.
By the way, a heavier fighter suffers not the same performance reduction with external load, when compared to light fighter. 🙂

sens but if the Su-30MKI/33/35/37 generate more lift and less drag while maneouvring and in the super Flankers Su-30MKI/35 they have more thrust how can be less agile? the only thing i saw in favor of that according to Fomin the Su-27SK only has a lighter normal take off weight but basicly is not far from the Su-30MKI and the MKI has higher thrust

You are going much too far. Canards are no help in withstanding more G-load.
They create more lift in the lower speed-envelope and help to reach a higher AOA. TVC does the same. Results are = lower corner-speed= smaller turn-radius. Slower speeds = better landings and shorter take-off-runs.
In the transsonic to supersonic range the canards are less usefull and create higher drag. Here TVC generates much more directed = usefull thrust for high AOAs and the benefits from that.
All this manouver enhancer are not without penalities. The disadvantage of Canards at higher speeds is given. More load = stress into the structure. Normally Canards will reduce G-load. To keep it such strong you put strength = weight into fuselage. Not good for your thrust/weight-ratio. Energetic vortices from Canards put further stress on your fuselage too.
TVC adds more weight, see thrust/weight-ratio. Hot gases at tail-section gives shorter lifetime of components and is more demanding in maintenance.
The way of getting more thrust from the engine = running hotter, is limited. You have to use your FADEC carefully. Maybe YAHOO will read the last sentence at least. :rolleyes: Power-settings are no longer fixed values. You can choose in a range, between more lifetime or more thrust. As posted before, the user can tell only, what are the FADEC-settings. Seems to be so, that India choose 12800 kp for take-off. It compares to higher MTOW still possible.
In the future all MKI will be mentained and served by India only. The long term effects of that is no longer the responsibility of SUKHOI and Russian producer. 🙂

Sens i will 100% honest i read that from an Air international Magazine and a Su-27 book, i do not know how it helps to whilthstand more Gs perhaps simply i would guess the Su-27 can hold more than 10 Gs normally but the kind of maneouver that the canards help to performe in a basic Su-27 the less lift generated by the Su-27 would create a structural problem (even those maneouvers would have a higher G loading of 11Gs or 12Gs but with canards is as low as 10Gs) but that extra lift acting versus the gravity rest to the G forces strength so therefore allowing the 10 Gs to be sustained in those maneuvers but honestly this is a guess but i indeed read it but was reported that the Su-35 and Su-37 can withstand 10Gs easily

It’ll be fun to see the Indians looking like this –>:mad: next year when the FC1/JF17 is unveiled in final form, and the J10A/B/C come online, and sold to Pakistan. It was awesome seeing them red with envy and anger when China launched a man to outer-space. 😀

Notice this guy Hamburger gets very personal calling people idiot, etc. It shows he is extremely an insecure person, and most likely has a small penis. 😛

Hamburger, no matter how much you vent and insult people here, the JF17 is going forward, and will be inducted soon, and leave your pitiful LCA project behind. You can’t stop it. 😀

Indians must think if they type hard enough, the JF17 will go away. 😀

i wonder why so passion for one aircraft, i like Indian girls as Paksitani ladies they are quiet beautiful, the FC-1 is an aircraft but both India and Pakistan have enormous socioeconomic troubles to say you envy each other, or even say the Chinese send a person into orbit when in reality in all the third world there is so much injustice, poverty and ignorance that even sending a human into orbit is a small drop in the ocean of problems that China India and Paksitan and all of the third world have.
Technically speaking the Su-30 is a better aircraft but even i feel Yahoo25 is wrong i hate when some people call him names, he likes his FC-1 to a point to disagree with everybody to me is okay because disagreeing you can learn or confirm points, i personally think he is wrong and blinded of the reality simply because he likes the FC-1 to a point to do not see the true limitation that jet has but i like to disagree with him because he is polite and he asked me questions and in that way i also learn