As stated previously can we start discussing these in this thread?;):D

Could we all agree to show a little more consideration to others and a little more thought before using terms which may not be a problem for ourselves and our circle of contacts, but do cause offence to others. This forum is open to people from all over the world after all.

Finally, could we get back to what this thread is supposed to be about? RN Fighter aircraft?

Obi Wan,Your Bucc, with the Tornado nose and avionics got me thinking how if things were different a mark 3 might have looked in Navy squadron service. Could you doctor the image to look like an 800 or 801 cab with “E” or “V” code? Your phantonised carriers were a real treat!
Back in the mid 70s when we sailed out of Devonport on Ark Royal we would pass the mighty Eagle laid up in Plymouth sound. As I looked over her empty flight deck I would imagine what might have been, her air wing on board…899 Phantoms with the flying fist on the fin and 800 Buccaneers etc. However she had now taken on a stillness. Where her jets once thundered, now nothing but silence… eerie but still a sense of awe about her.

That particular aircraft’s colour scheme has always intrigued me, it first flew in 1997 as one of the final three built, and was never intended for either the Navy or the RAF but the MOD Procurement Executive for trials work. The pseudo naval scheme was already ten years outof date. Possibly a tribute and reminder of the Buccs origins. Certainly if you hear RAF types (though by no means all of them) talking about the Phantom and Bucc they seem to be oblivious to it’s naval origins (selective amnesia?). Have a read of some of the threads over on PPRuNe and you’ll see what I mean.

I think the premature paying off of Eagle was a travesty as she had so much life left in her. At the time she was paid off, she was not only the largest (by displacement) Aircraft Carrier in RN service, she also had the largest gun battery of any ship in service and the largest missile battery too! Add to that the complete failure to preserve either her or Ark Royal, well don’t get me started. Excuse like they were too big to preserve successfully are frankly nonsense, since the americans have had no problem preserving six Battleships and six carriers of similar size if not larger. Imagine Pompey today with the Historic corner of the dockyard containing not just Victory, Mary Rose, Warrior and that Monitor from WW1, But Eagle as well, with representative aircraft on deck and displays in the hangars. Tell me she wouldn’t earn her keep! Although many suggested Ark should have been preserved at Greenwhich, I would have kept her in her home port at Guz, to help attract tourists to the west country. It’s beautiful down there and much more fitting than London. Actually, They could earn their keep anyway if the engines were overhauled, as power stations generating electricity! An American carrier did this in the 1930s for a whole city…

As for the photo of the Bucc, I don’t have photoshop on my computer, which is what that kind of mod requires. I only have paint which is a lot simpler but a lot less subtle. If anyone else wants to have a go, please feel free.

So really i think it will be soon goodbye harriers !

I think not. We’ve just signed a ten year maintenance contract on the Pegasus engines, and Airframes are still going through the JUMP program. They will still be required for deployment from the carrier force for at least that long. Withdrawing the Harriers before they can be replaced by the F-35 would be an act of crass stupidity, even for this government. At the very least the Harriers are required to maintain a cadre of STOVL trained carrier qualified pilots, and contrary to Torpy’s opinion, this is an important capability that should be maintained.

The Sevmash shipyard has had a lot of practice lately in the finer points of carrier construction (Vikramaditya), and I’m sure they will have learned a lot from the experience, mostly what not to do! Tenyears from starting the project to commissioning the first unit sounds about right, but for all we know the go ahead may have been given a couple of years ago. The first two or three years would be design and development, but from keel laying to commissioning would be closer to six or seven years. Remeber also that a carrier’s construction, like any warship, is split between different areas of a shipyard. The hull is built on a slipway (or in a drydock) and launched when structurally complete, this takes anything from two to four years depending on how much prefabrication is done, then the hull is moved to a fitting out berth for the more complicated fitting out process. Once the building dock/slipway is clear construction of a second hull can commence, usually quicker as lessons from building the first can be incorporated. Thus a production line is set up, and although the first ship may take a long time to appear from project commencement, after that follow on units can appear at regular intervals. So ten years to produce carrier one, but after another ten years three could be in service, possibly four depending on how much of the shipyard’s resources are devoted to the endeavour. If a second slipway/dock is brought on line four units in ten years is more believable. This is all hypothetical of course, we shall have to wait and see.

One of the key fittings to the Argentine vessel was the CAAIS systems using the ADAWS Mk8 display. This enabled the ship to communicate with the two Type 42s the Argentines had using Link-Y. I dont know if any of the other light fleets got a comparable or superior fit but for its day it was very high end.

ARA Veinticinco de Mayo would be a serious contender for the best fitted of her class for this, and also because she had the longest stroke steam catapult of any light fleet. The Dutch did a very neat job of rebuilding her between 1955-58. Minas Gerais was also refitted in Holland a short while later but emerged looking completely different. She also holds the record for the longest serving aircraft carrier in history, not bad for a ship originally intended to be expendable after a few years in wartime.

Lots. For the best fitted of the class it’s probably a five way tie between HMAS Melbourne (ex Majestic), HMCS Bonaventure (ex Powerful), INS Vikrant (ex Hercules), BNS Minas Gerais (ex Vengeance) and ARA 25 de Mayo (ex HNLMS Karel Doorman, ex Venerable). These carriers take the lead because they were all modernised with a Steam Catapult and an angled deck as well as a modern radar suite. ‘Second rank’ in the class would include FS Arromanches (ex Colossus) and ARA Independencia (ex Warrior), as they recieved angled decks but retained their Hydraulic Catapults. Below that are the rest of the class which retained the axial deck configuration and were either unmodernised or converted to other roles (eg Triumph, Perseus, Pioneer, and HMAS Sydney in her later years).

Surprised nobody has posted these under the ‘zapped’ category, though if they have I apologise. Also a few pages back there was a picture of a Harrier GR3 in 899NAS markings; this aircraft never flew in those colours and didn’t reach the FAA until after it had been retired from service. It was painted up for use as a promotional aircraft in the absence of any retired Sea Harriers in the early 90s. It has since passed to private ownership and has been resprayed in it’s original RAF colours.