Back on topic. I recently heard that the British MOD is refusing to offer Sea Harrier airframes to India in an apparent reversal of policy. A squadrons’ worth of SHARs are being maintained as ‘runners’ down at the SFDO at RNAS Culdrose and most of the others have been reduced to spare parts, so why hang on to them if we don’t need them any more? (As far as I’m concerned we DO NEED them and I’m glad we appear to be hanging on to them in some capacity). Two more SHARS are kept in ‘mint’ condition at RAF Cottesmore so the pilots of the NSW can remain familiar with the cockpits in theory…;)

Su-33. The various articles so far say this is the plane of choice, though I wonder what new variant they’ll come up with? The old Su-33 is out of date.

Maybe a navalized Su-35BM equivalent? :diablo: Might be based off the Su-30MKK, though.

Most of the PLAN is out of date. It will fit right in. New avionics are being developed all the time and those that fit the land based SU-27 family will fit the sea based SU-33 family too.

Assuming China has steam cats in the first place.

I agree with Golly, The first generation of Chinese carriers will most likely use STOBAR, but will probably be fitted for but not with catapults to enable later retrofitting. Chian Has the technology of the steam catapult, it’s not particularly complicated for one thing and they got their hands on a relatively intact example aboard the former HMAS Melbourne in the mid 80s. Whilst that cat was far too small for current types of aircraft, steam catapults are relatively straightforward to scale up in design terms. They all operate on the same principle. There are plenty of publications available that give enough information fo any competent steam engineer to work out how to build one. China still has a lot of steam trains so steam engineers are not in short supply. Installing a dedicated steam generating plant aboard a carrier otherwise powered by GTs or diesels is not a problem, as the plant would not take up all that much room. The first generation of steam cat equipped carriers drew steam for the cats from the main boilers, and trials showed that ship speed was practically unaffected. Later ships had separate boilers installed dedicated to the cats (HMS Victorious had two wing boilers forward to serve the cats), and this is the solution proposed for the GT powered French PA2 should it ever appear. The next generation of cats will only require electricity so the problem of power source becomes less important.

coulg the RN have possibly taked the FDR when she was retired in the late 60s early 70s? She was a little more capable than an Essex.

FDR was retired because she was almost as worn out as the Ark was in 78.

Is it possible that the Saudi would consider give Pakistan its retired Advance Tornado’s when the Typhoons come on line???

ADV isn’t short for ‘Advance’, it’s an acronym for Air Defence Variant. Visually easy to distinguish from the IDS version (Interdictor/Strike) by a longer nose cone to house the Foxhunter radar and semi recessed mountings for four Skyflash/Sparrow AAMs under the fuselage. Also usually painted in low viz grey as opposed to the brown camouflage of the IDS aircraft.

Very much the case a very well thought out design, on the other hand the Invincible class which is seen by many as the definitive “Harrier Carrier” is not an optimum design for the task by any measure. They might be bigger but they don’t make best use of the 20,000ish tons! Considering they were built to operate ASW helicopters only with Sea Dart for self defense the specification was not optimized for Harrier operations. On the other hand the RN makes do with what it has and has got their moneys worth out of them.

I must admit that I am surprised that the Ark Royal is going to be retired before Illustrious, considering that she is the biggest and newest in the class and she spent most of the 90’s stripped to the bones for a deep refit followed by another extensive refit in the last few years. She also makes a logical back up to Ocean.

Just proves these descisions should be kept well away from the pollies! At least following the recent announcement about the delay to the completion of the CVFs the defence secretary said the Invincibles would be kept in service until their replacements were ready, so talk of 2012 and 2015 OSDs should be dropped. Perhaps a little sanity will prevail and the order of decommissioning will be reversed. BTW, Ark isn’t physically bigger than either of her sisters, though when commissioned she had a larger displacement, this was due to modifications such as a larger ski jump and extra weapon sponsons as well as internal changes. Subsequent refits to all ships of the class evened out these differences so all should be considered the same size (ie displacement/length/beam/draught etc).

The ships designers have said that despite not getting official sanction for Harriers to be included until 1975 (two years after Invincible had been laid down), Provision for the carriage and operation of a small sqn of Harriers had been included in the design from the start. Istalling the ski jump ramp was the only major modification post 1975 and pre commissioning.

How exactly has uncontrolled immigration been a disaster?:rolleyes: Nice to see the xenopohobes out in force here.:mad:

Not Xenophobic at all. Diseases like TB had been wiped out in the UK decades ago, but now are on the rise again because basic health checks are not carried out at the borders. The NHS is losing millions of pounds every year thanks to ‘health tourism’, ie people from other countries who have no right to free NHS health care coming here and getting treatent without paying. Eastern European criminal gangs making the UK their new base of operations because the authorities won’t lift a finger against them for fear of being branded racist. I have friends of many nationalites and ethnic groups and they are far ore vociferous than I could ever be on this subject. They or their parents came to the UK with next to nothing, worked damned hard and built a new life for themselves, and now they are appalled that people are allowed in without a second glance and handed ‘everything on a plate’ (their words not mine) after claiming asylum even though they are under no threat in their own country. There was a recent case of a muslim family being allowed to rent a mansion for herself and her seven children at public expense because her seven kids simply had to have a bedroom each. An extreme example, but by no means isolated. Controlled immigration is not about slamming the borders shut, but about only letting in those who can contribute to society and excluding those who seek only to be a burden.

I’m a bit baffle by HMS Eagle: greater tonnage than FS CdG yet obviously smaller and only slightly smaller tonnage than USS Midway, which is bigger than both Eagle and CdG.

Eagle had two hangar decks and an armoured flight deck compared to CdG.