You guys realise that what goes on in these threads is a p*****g contest between those who hate Putin/Russians because they grew up to hate communists, those who hate Putin/Russians because of ethnic reasons, those who love Putin/Russia for ethnic and political reasons and those who may or may not have a more objective view.

The point is that I think we have lost any objectivity. I am sure some people will never be satisfied with anything.

I tend to agree. What we’ve likely seen is an accident as a result of a war in which two sides were fighting for what they believed in.

1. Even the evidence submitted by the opposing side (radio intercepts), shows that there was absolutely no premeditation or intent.

2. They were operating with whatever piecemeal air defence components they could lay their hands on, which clearly didn’t allow for proper identification of targets.

3. There were not supposed to be any civil airliners on that path at that particular time and the aircraft in question diverted last minute.

4. Other smarter airlines had chosen to avoid this area and indeed the whole of Ukraine, which proved to be the correct decision.

5. No ATC or airline communication channels existed with the rebels.

6. It was indisputably known that a high-altitude capable SAM was operating in the area, because a) A cargo plane was shot down, and b) Another radio intercept provided by Ukraine contained a clear indication that a Buk was operating in rebel held territory and was being relocated.

I criticise the report simply because it denies point 6, even though it includes evidence that proves it beyond any doubt. It even uses express language like, “There was no indication that a SAM was operating in the area.” Now an indication doesn’t even require proof, it only requires a suspicion, and the evidence goes well beyond that criteria.

It also fails to highlight point 4, which is the really important part that could save lives in the future.

Similarly it ignores point 5, which again could save lives.

It also overlooks points 1, 2 and 3 in attempting to position itself for a criminal prosecution. The USAF has infinitely more intelligence available to it than the Donbass rebels and still blew up a hospital. But again, there was no intent, why is this case different?

Yeah, I am not sure why they accomplish this, my guess is they slave the missile’s seeker head to the plane’s EOTS rather than the opposite so when the missiles is launched it “knows” which way to turn to achieve lock. Lot’s of instantaneous calculations must be taking place there..

You’re making it way more complicated than it actually is. OTS shots have been done outside HOBS seeker limits. You give the missile an INS cue using HMD and the missile tracks to that point, with its seeker performing IRST as it goes.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/103248/raaf-fires-asraam-in-%E2%80%9Clock-after-launch%E2%80%9D-mode.html

In a world first for an Air Force and an infra-red guided missile, Air Combat Group (ACG) of the Royal Australian Air Force has successfully carried out the first in-service ‘Lock After Launch’ firing of an ASRAAM (Advanced short-range air-to-air missile) at a target located behind the wing-line of the ‘shooter’ aircraft.

The firing was conducted from an F/A-18 fighter aircraft, at low level and typical fighter speed, at a target located behind the fighter at a range in excess of 5km. The result was a direct hit on the target.

The engagement simulated a “chase down” situation by an enemy fighter and successfully demonstrated the potential for an all-round self protection capability with the ASRAAM. This capability is inherent on all platforms that provide pre-launch ‘over the shoulder’ designation information such as F/A-18, Eurofighter Typhoon and F-35 JSF.

Unless you are an F35 and the missile is inside the weapons bay.

Nic

You’ve not heard of LOAL or over-the-shoulder shots it seems.

No, hundreds of innocents dead, it isn’t at all funny to me.

Nor is it at all odd that there would be a heck of a lot more available evidence in this case than some back-alley crime. Transporting and operating a SAM like the Buk isn’t something done by a single thug… it is the work of a (Russian) government with numerous people involved at one stage or another, people who need to communicate with each other, etc.

So how come they didn’t have a full system with all the components then? How come they were using a Ukrainian lorry for transport? How come the Russians weren’t just shooting down everything with S-400s from over the border? Your accusations make little sense.

Ehem… Who veto’ed the mh17 resolution in UN?

As for flying in war zones, remember a Singapore Airlines jet was flying just about 5-10minutes behind the MH17 during the incident. I personally has flown over Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan for flights from Europe to south east Asia, it is a normal route for most airlines, not just malaysian.

Texting on a mobile phone while driving is normal for some people, that doesn’t make it sensible.

No, the HMD “says” in what direction you’re looking, regardless if there’s something to lock onto or not. What tells your missile that there’s someting to lock on are sensors positioned to cover that part of the sky (or ground, if it’s a ground target) and who detect it.

Basically, with the HMD you tell the system “hey, look that way”, the system looks and displays what it found to you.. then you can designate this or that target and shoot at it

But what garryA is saying is that HMD can cue a missile in LOAL-mode even without such sensors pointing that way, hence this OTS shot, which resulting in a direct hit from over 5km away at low altitude. This missile has an IRST sensor too don’t forget.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/raaf-kills-over-the-shoulder-asraam-05323/

It doesn’t have to be part f the plane. It may well be the missile’s seeker head. No IRST required

Bingo!

Lukos… I think you’re happy to have found a funny formula for you only. repeating it over and over again won’t make it more funny for the others.
You write already a lot of BS, it’s tiresome enough. If you repeat stupidities like a parrot, it’s getting ridiculous…

Well the claim of SPECTRA preventing lock WVR is just as dumb as claiming an Su-24MR shutting down an Aegis radar. Hence, French Sputnik.