What?
I think what I said is fairly straight forward. I remember hearing claims about the Soviets might have thermonuclear-pumped lasers in space and all manner of crap in the 1980s.
And yes, the Soviets and Soviet pilots fought in those wars. Rimon 20 was the Soviets attempting to prove that Egyptian pilots were crap by flying against the Israelis themselves. Result – whitewash 5:0. Pakistan vs Soviets – 10:0. Korea and Vietnam were closer but the Soviets were still beaten. The aircraft were cheaper… until they started getting shot down more frequently.
If you don’t increase the wing areal when you get a larger and heavier airframe, well eighter you go for the Pure interceptor design(aka Mig-31) goal, or you are basicly making a very bad Choice(like craming three different design and role into one airframe)..
That the PakFa has much larger wing areal vs F-35 is totaly legit, I would flip it around and say if we could stretch the F-35 and put larger wings on it, then all for the better.My fattie jab, is perhaps not a good sentiment.. Too bad peps.
If it looks good, it flies good.Its simple logic. The F-35 makes up for its short lenght, and relative smaller wings by making the wings less sweeped, aka more SH wing style in order to generate the desired lift.
Anyway, you tried to argue that PakFa larger wings make it more draggy.. Which in this case, it don’t.
I would say Sukhoi has balanced it very nice.
It retain the Flanker fuel volume, turn rate but having less drag and better RCS. Bingo!
The dominant factor in subsonic cruise is Cd0*A, the kCl^2 term is trivial. So what you argue is plain wrong. Since you mention the MiG-31, it would undoubtedly be slower if it had larger wings. Why? More drag.
‘If it looks good it flies good’ – Can Jessica Alba fly?
Yes and the generate lift at subsonic speeds more efficiently for that very reason.
They absolutely do, Cd = Cd0 + kCl^2. Last term is trivial in cruise, therefore Cd ~ Cd0. Drag = 0.5*Density*Cd*Area*v^2.
Balance depends what you’re aiming for. It has 2,700lb less fuel than an Su-35. Fuel fraction is 35% vs 38.5%. Drag area is 30% higher. Now if they’ve made a lot of aerodynamic and fuel efficiency improvements, maybe it can get near the same range but the idea that it’s going to beat 4,000km is nonsense. Meanwhile >3,000km for an aircraft with a 39% fuel fraction, 0.57 BPR and 28:1 PR is a very conservative claim.
What is the point of having this discussion if we are biased anyway? It doesn’t stay true to the topic title even.
Historical evaluation of Russian hardware in combat is the question? Definitely positive I would say!
If we take into account the following points, it becomes more evident.
-Soviet/Russian doctrine was based on quantity, not individual overwhelming quality.
-Soviet supported states and countries did not receive the latest nor the most well equipped models.
-Soviet doctrine was not in favour of individual pilot/commander/soldier performance. Training was completely different in scope and objective.
-Soviets very rarely had the opportunity to get their hands on examples of western made equipment, the opposite happened with alarming frequency. Therefore they had little insight into the ‘opponent’s’ strengths and weaknesses.
-On every occasion the equivalent equipment on the Soviet side was cheaper in absolute terms, yet effective enough for purpose.Some people have ‘cold war’ goggles on. Anything US made is amazing and everything USSR made is bad.
I would definitely say that the average US trained pilot had a lot more training (in both quality and quantity) than the average Warsaw Pact pilot.
A duel between an F-4 and a MiG-21 would be very different if both planes were flying missions planned by equally trained people and piloted by equally trained pilots even with the differences in equipment and doctrine.
Actually the quality of Russian equipment was massively overestimated during the Cold War.
And your points don’t hold if you’ve been following the thread, because even in several instances directly involving the Soviets, they still did badly. Korea, Vietnam, Rimon, Pakistan-Afghan border….
No, there is a name. Jameel Sayhood. He’s said to have been shot down the same day while fighting a USAF F-15C piloted by Cesar Rodriguez, but ejected & survived, though with injuries which rendered him unfit for further flying duties, & retired with a promotion from Captain to Major-General.
The Rodriguez/MiG-29 incident is recorded by the USAF as a MiG flying into the ground while trying to evade, not being shot down. The story of Jameel Sayhood ejecting, surviving, & retiring with a huge promotion was published in Iraq years later. It’s said to have happened soon after midday, on the same flight as Sayhood is said to have shot down the Tornado. Note that: the claim of shooting down the Tornado is about midday on January 19th. No RAF Tornados were over Iraq at that time. The losses on January 19th & 22nd were both at night.
BTW, some versions of the story have Sayhood shooting down David Waddington & Robert Stewart, who were actually shot down on the 19th. But they’re said to have been killed instantly, which must amuse them, though I doubt it worries them. They were captured, & released after the war.
David Waddington
Robbie StewartThe moral of this story? Unfortunately, there are no credible Iraqi accounts. Why, I do not know.
Thanks, I think that clears it up.
I think the logic here is that at 200ft, radar would likely have missed the GR1, so it could only have been through a visual sighting and hence a tail chase, and hitting a 700mph target at 200ft with an R-60 in tail chase is tricky.
Let’s turn it upside down..
An USAF F-15 pilot claims an AIM-7 shootdown of an Iraqi Su-24MK, providing the whole story about how it happened.. Iraqi MoD admits a loss of an Su-24MK in that area, but with remark that the loss was due fratricide (SAM battery).. In my humble opinion, that kill would be listed as “confirmed”. Who the hell listens to Iraqis, anyway?
It would be nice if you devoted so much attention to detail to each one of those 82 Israeli kills… I think good ~30 of them would be outright dismissed if the same logic was applied.
My 0.02 only
If you want to know the reason why people don’t listen to Iraqi claims, two words, Comical Ali.
Withheld? Just because Cooper or you don’t know it?
Call Iraqi MoD and ask ’em..
Withheld because withheld. Unconfirmed because unconfirmed. I.e. never happened.
http://www.acig.info/CMS/?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=47
It depends.. CGI over their own territory, AWACS/ELINT over the foreign soil..
What’s so strange here? Do USAF operate without AWACS?
What’s strange is that not one single air engagement in post-WWII history supports your claim, yet every one of them supports mine. All a big coincidence huh.
Sure… :stupid:
http://fortune.com/2015/09/25/air-force-f-35/
https://www.ecnmag.com/blog/2015/09/if-you-cant-say-nice-things-about-f-35-air-force-will-tell-you-how
And what about foreign pilots who said the same thing?
😉
https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a63ddcc0c289f9457bc3ebab.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/13537/f35a_2.pdf
https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a63ddcc0c289f9457bc3ebab.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/13538/f35b.pdf
https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a63ddcc0c289f9457bc3ebab.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/13539/f35c.pdf
You obviously don’t understand what ‘>’ means.
You are so funny 😛
Which has best subsonic fuel consumption, Concorde or A320?
As said, pretty much everyone is raising claims in the same area for themselves.. Brunei, PRC, Indonesia, Taiwan, Cambodia, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam, Singapore.. What do you want to do, impose sanctions on everyone?
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Most nations are claiming territory within 200nm of their coast or inhabited islands, China’s claims stretch to 2,000nm.
lol what!!??
“Taiwan” claims the whole mainland and also whole South China Sea too!! and nothing, we have to something. oh wait, apparently, Vietnam wants the whole South China Sea too, we have done something about that though, should repeat it again, why not?? 😀 history dude, read some history…
So many ironies in a single sentence. Burst of knowledge and intelligence. love you :eagerness:
Completely incorrect.

Taiwan was previously in control on mainland China up to 1949.
“Defeating” the US is beyond thinkable.. one can’t defeat a nuclear superpower without being defeated, as well, MAD concept is still valid..
What matters for China is to be perfectly capable to dictate their own policy in their area without being intervened by the contradicting interests of the US.. and they have been doing a very good job so far..It can’t disappear, anymore.. The tremendous production capabilities of PRC can be harmed by suddenly stopped interest from EU and US, but only for a moment. They got new emerging markets in Latin America and Africa… and, most importantly, a billion of own people who are not being fed with their own products due to pending exports.. That is a lot of room for further expansion..
OTOH, how would EU and US suddenly handle a situation without the “Made in PRC” stuff, that I leave to your own imagination.. My best bet is that you would suffer much more and much longer than Chinese would..
Wait until they start trying to drill other people’s EEZ, then said oil rig and island targets will be taken out by a hail of cruise missiles.
Easy, make it somewhere else. Good luck trying to replace European and North American markets with South America and Africa.
Beyond Visual Range for the Arabs, not the Israelis. The AWACs help position the F-16As to point at the tail end of the Arab fighters. Sidewinders are launched at least a mile away. At that distance, the attacking aircraft would appear like a small dot (.) to the Arab pilot, if he look in the rearview mirror.
The AWACs may look ungainly and awkward, but all the credit for those air victories should go to the AWACs.
So now we’re redefining WVR too.
Correct when applied over their own territory, linked together by a network of CGI stations.. Soviet designs were virtually blind as they have relied on vectoring from ground stations. Even early MiG-29s were built that way.. As said, doctrine dictates the design, not vice versa..
Pffft. So now you’ve gone from ‘deadly when use by them’ to ‘deadly when used by them only over their own territory.’ :applause: