So actually, the only facist here is you, whom claims all Englishmen stink.

—->

“heyyy, I met an Englishman who stink a few years ago. Geeez, so all Englishmen must stink!”

Guess what:rolleyes:

Furthermore, you are also subscribing to the view that to have knowledge about a view is to support that view, so therefore if you know about the gassing of the Jews by the Nazis, you must support it! 😎

I only said a very specific thing regarding collective responsibility: I see you wrote nothing relative to argue with that, so, no hard feelings on my side!

Best regards 😎

My point is you seemed unaware of why the point about Greek crews abandoning the passengers which was brought up by Hawx Ace, I was highlighting a case which he may be referring to.

OK, so basically there is no point.

Accidents and mishaps, either by bad luck or by bad conduct are hardly news, they may happen anywhere and at any time. But that was not the argument, and that was not what I disagreed with. In fact, the two cases I posted (1972, 1997) where instances when two infamous wreckages took place in Greece, so you see, I’m informed decently enough.

It doesn’t matter anyway. The last three days have proved beyond any doubt the worthiness and potential of the seamen. The thousands of lives “evacuated from hell” (in their own words) speak for themselves.

On a similar note the Greece has offered to evacuate EU citizens via ships from Libya.

I have a hunch the Greek navy and Airforce must be busy standing up ships and equipment tonight if they plan an evacuation!

Yes, quite busy actually. In the last few days, Greek C-130s have been flying over at least 170 citizens (some of them wounded) to El. Venizelos airport, while large Greek ferry boats escorted by HN vessels are evacuating the rest plus some 30,000 Chinese citizens to Crete. So far so good.

Some details here in Greek

In english:

http://www.ana.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=9637268&maindocimg=9631709&service=144&showLink=true
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_25/02/2011_380119
http://www.ana-mpa.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=9642125&maindocimg=9641904&service=144&showLink=true

By the way, the weather is really bad seriously troubling sea operations. In fact, because of the bad weather a turkish ship was forced to abandon the effort temporarily.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90853/7299782.html

Here’s a photo of Chinese citizens boarding a Greek ferry (property of ANEK Lines)

A video in Greek from a tv channel here:

http://www.ethnos.gr/article.asp?catid=11381&subid=2&pubid=55557052

Considering the reputation of the Greek Merchant fleet safety wise, EU citizens will have a tough choice to make, stay and risk being attacked in Libya, or board a ship older than their grandparents with crews whose first instinct is to abandon ship before their passengers!:eek:

Fantasising isn’t always that bad, but perhaps it’s time to wake up and have a reality check. The year is 2011, not 1972, not 1997.

Edit: These are the HSF Olympic Champion and the HSF Hellenic Spirit, which among others are taking part in the evacuation process, saving thousands so far. Hardly an “older than their grandparents” as you stated.

http://web.anek.gr/portal/page/portal/ANEK_prod/Fleet_2

The crews are trying hard in extreme conditions to SAVE HUMAN LIVES, some respect wouldn’t be too bad.

There are supposedly a few Serbs around (again) also:

http://balkanupdate.blogspot.com/2011/02/serb-mercenaries-fighting-on-behalf-of.html

This is not surprising at all, the surprising thing is that (if was a submarine strike), the torpedo actually hit the target..this IS the important detail.

The torpedo did not hit the target; it exploded just underneath it.

“ROKS “Cheonan” was split apart and sunk due to a shockwave and bubble effect produced by an underwater torpedo explosion.

The explosion occurred approximately 3m left of the center of the gas turbine room, at a depth of about 6~9m.”

It was certainly a torpedo, noone can tell for sure whether it was from a submarine:

“Based on all such relevant facts and classified analysis, we have reached the clear conclusion that ROKS “Cheonan” was sunk as the result of an external underwater explosion caused by a torpedo made in North Korea. The evidence points overwhelmingly to the conclusion that the torpedo was fired by a North Korean submarine.“

Interesting how the bolded bit bit disappeared and is not mentions in the final report, which points to a NK procuded fish that it makes available for export.

According to SK MoD:

“As for conclusive evidence that can corroborate the use of a torpedo, we have collected propulsion parts, including propulsion motor with propellers and a steering section from the site of the sinking.

The evidence matched in size and shape with the specifications on the drawing presented in introductory materials provided to foreign countries by North Korea for export purposes. The marking in Hangul, which reads “1번” (or No. 1 in English), found inside the end of the propulsion section, is consistent with the marking of a previously obtained North Korean torpedo. The above evidence allowed the JIG to confirm that the recovered parts were made in North Korea.”

I could counter you with your own question, if you look 20-30+ year into the future who knowns.. but i just say what i think will happen.

I don’t know, that’s my point. I can’t predict the future and I don’t know what will happen in a few decades. That’s why I don’t sound so sure about what wil happen then.

What’s your story? :p

IMHO, and based on the time it took to evolve the Su-34 from the T-10, I can speculate that an equivalent strike version of the T-50 either for RuAF or export is far from impossible.

As far as I am informed the Russians use the black stripes for dummies and it is copied by the users. But still the picture is impressive!

Here’s a few more, from the same source: