HAWX aceWell thats pretty much everybody then!
Looking at the list:
F16, very good choice but politics plays against it. Probably unaffordable as well.
Why do you say that? I think it’s quite the opposite, the only preventing factor being *maybe* people’s disapproval.
HAWX aceNice pictures from Paralay:
[IMG*]http://lh5.ggpht.com/_qe-z6hmCgxs/S5IcuIx-4AI/AAAAAAAAABo/m317EkttNFk/I…][IMG*]http://lh3.ggpht.com/_qe-z6hmCgxs/S5Icvl5eh3I/AAAAAAAAABw/BV2LnRyF10I/d…]
Thanks for sharing. 🙂
At last some good pics from different angles…
HAWX aceJust like every other european countries since the end of Cold War, and France is exactly in the same situation than UK, for that matter…. On the contrary, most contries in the world, especially in Asia and the Middle east have actually increased their defense budget…
No, not most other countries. In addition, defense budget does not only relate to hardware procurment but also (or rather mostly) personnel payment, and with most armies worldwide going more and more professional, that makes quite a difference.
But never mind, let’s agree that it’s only in Europe. So what makes UK any different than any other country in Europe? —->
I cant teach the blind. If you cant get my point….well…….maybe read the posts befor u answer..
So, basically you don’t have a point.
HAWX aceBut I havent seen Britain do anything but cut its armed forces to the bone for the last 15 years
..just like every other country since the end of Cold War. And your point is exactly…… what?
HAWX aceThere have been quite a few arguments against russian aircraft on the basis of ukranian dependence on russian appetites. While this makes perfect sense (as it does for any other country for that matter), what about russian dependence on ukranian-made components? I remember some time ago mr. Putin vowed to make Russia totally sellf reliant in aircrafts’ engines components, even cruise missiles’ spare parts and other stuff currently made only in Ucraine for Russian hardware.
What is the situation now? Has anything changed so far??
HAWX aceFWIW, I too believe the recent eurofighter explanation is pure, high grade BS.
so the only way Eurofighter could possibly win a contest is to bribe its way to victory?
Of course not, don’t be silly! It can also win through politic extortion based on debts and other obligations… 😉
no, what I mean that, if you look at eurofighter export markets, be it in austria or with the saudis, things weren’t exactly “clear”… (charges in austria and justice “advised” not to pursue investigations by the british government…)
Quite a point, still, finding a contest that even approaches the notion of “clear” is not exactly the easiest task, don’t you think?
HAWX acethe f-35 replaces the f-117
Maybe, some time in the future this will happen too. For now, the F-35 has not yet been inducted into service.
HAWX aceAnd when you compare the flyaway price of mica and amraam, you see that the former cost the 2/3 of the first.
Not a chance.
50 MICA EMs for 56 million euros makes for 1.12 euros each. For comparison, during the same period (2000-2001) another contract was signed for our new F-16 block 52+. 100 AIM-120C5 for 46 million US $ makes for 460.000 US $ each. It’s not the 2/3s, it’s more like 1/3. and that’s for the EM version, the IR is far more expensive, almost 5-6 times the price of an Iris-T or AIM-9X. If it was made of gold, it would probably be cheaper. Of course it’s better in some aspects (range, lethality, but not speed) but does it make good for all that extra cost? I guess only in wartime we’ll know. It had better be though, cause if it doesn’t our M2K-5 won’t be able to rearm but only once, unlike our F-16s.
Amraam is significantly cheaper, but generaly go with some restriction of use. That the original country don’t want to sell more of them is not a restriction. That the missile are not in you possession is a restriction.
Point taken, but the fact remains that the MICA does not secure indepedence any more than AMRAAM does, the recent french empargo on Taiwan is the proof.
HAWX aceNo Fulcrum was acquired from Germany, while the Moldovan ones were 14 Fulcrum C, 6 Fulcrum A and one UB.
If what is written in the article has a grain of truth, these Mirages will be bought by the US on behalf of Afghanistan or Iraq. They have far more capable F-15 and F-16 which act as agressors, no need for tired F-1s.
Quite right, german fulcrums were donated to Poland. I don’t see the US having any need for second hand french MF1s. Only as a “middle man” to pass them over to Iraq or Afghanistan, but still, why wouldn’t France itself pass it over?
Also, Iran is not an Arab country.
HAWX aceHINT: The F22 is a interceptor, a plane originally designed for air superiority, it was never meant to sneak in a SAM network, the one designed for strike missions is the F-35
Never? Are you sure? The F-117 was replaced by the F-22 which are now responsible for the very missions you just described, no?
HAWX aceI did not know that NATO was eternal.
I also did not know that “once a member, always a member” applies to that organization.To stay polite.;)
Nothing is eternal; but NATO is not going to be disbanded any time soon.
Once a member always a member certainly does not apply; France and Greece have both withdrawn from NATO, but remained members politically and returned in full membership later on.
As to the original argument, saying Bulgaria will get the PAK-FA is saying pigs will fly.
To stay polite. 😉
HAWX aceSu-25 combat jet crashes in Azerbaijan, pilot killed
17:38 03/03/2010
A fighter plane of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces crashed on Wednesday during a training flight, killing the pilot, the country’s Defense Ministry said.
A Su-25 Frogfoot close air support aircraft crashed in the Shamkir district in northwest Azerbaijan at about 5 p.m. local time [13:00 GMT], the ministry said.
An investigation into the cause of the incident has been launched, the ministry said.
HAWX aceSo its just the question of why Sukhoi thought or thinks Super Agility is functionally more important than all aspect stealth .
I think the answer is very simple: $$$
“Quantity has a quality of its own”, typical russian philosophy.
HAWX aceThey say themselve that the 2000 is the backbone of their air-defense. The problem is only the price of spare, not the missile. And they have these missile, they don’t have to wait that the united state send them in case of war like the amraam.
I wasn’t talking about the M2K-5s, but rather about the MICAs themselves. Are the MICAs still the backbone of their air-defense? Why don’t you do a little research and find out for yourself?
When I add a official document for reference*, feel free to read it. 1914m€ for the development and the delivery of 1110 missile to the french army (air force+marine)
The problem is a) I’m already familiar with the document and b) it is about France. Quite frankly, I don’t give a sh** how much the French taxpayer pays, I’m not a French taxpayer.
In my 2008 report, it’s precised that the final cost is inferior to the previsions. You seem to use old data.
So, you actually believe that the price of the MICA has dropped 100% within 5 years. Incredible as it may sound, especially when everything’s prices is climping, it’s a free world, mostly, so you may believe whatever you want.
I am in fact using old data, that’s all I have. 3 contracts (main plus 2 options) signed in 2000, deposits begining in 2003. The two options, only including missiles were “027Γ/00” option,56 million euros for 50 ΜΙCA EMs and “057Γ/00” option, 88.6 million euros for 52 ΜΙCA IRs. Once again: I don’t care how much MBDA charges AdA and MN just like I don’t care how much Raytheon charges USAF or USN.
OTOH, if you have more recent data about MICA prices in the export market explicitly stating MICA EM fly away price at 0.6 million €, feel free to throw them on the table, and I’ll stand corrected.
EDIT, just for the record:
We’ve known that French government has no sincerity for doing any new military business with Taiwan since several years ago, when Taiwan Navy asked for ASTER-15 SAM to equip its six French frigates (16 missiles per ship), and the cost that France offered for this plan was more than the total cost of three squadrons of F-16C/D Block52…..
However, I think French government has really gone too far to cut off the entire logistical support business which is necessary for maintaining Taiwan airforce’s Mirage and MICA today. Taiwan is the first and the biggest foreign customer for buying new-built Mirage 2000-5 and MICA AAMs, and now it is treated by French government like this without any explanation.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1377522&postcount=610
Taiwan (ROC) ordered 60 Mirage 2000-5 and 960 MICA AAMs in 1990s, and after around 10 years of service, more than 90% of MICA AAMs have reached their own life-span.And when Taiwan asked France for the necessary refurbishment and upgrading for Mirage 2000-5 and MICA AAMs this year, French government simply refused and set a military ban to Taiwan without any explanation. What a great missile, and what a great post-sale service……..
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1376476&postcount=585
HAWX aceThe IRST “pod” isn’t there and neither is a slot for later instalation, nothing appearent anyway. This means no IRST I presume, or another solution of some kind? Or that’s just for that specific prototype?
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