Cumulatively speaking we’re at:
one-piece wrap-around windscreen
probe aerial refueling
color multi function cockpit screens
Have Quick V/UHF and long range HF radios
2x Pratt & Whitney PW1120 (two engines were on one ‘Kurnass 2000’ demonstrator in 1987) = TF30 equivalent thrust
4x AIM-120B AMRAAM (German F-4F ICE)
4x AIM-9M (HAF), Python-3 (IAF), or IRIS-T (german test F-4)
KS-127 LOROP (RF-4C long-range oblique photography)
AN/APR-47 EW system (replaces internal cannon)
F-4S wings (F-4J’s big wing with extra control surfaces)
Twin-stick controls
PACT fly-by-wire (YF-4E demonstrator)
LN100GT GPS/INS navigation system (Turkey)
KB-35 Strike Recording Camera
canard nose (YF-4E demonstrator)
telescoping front undercarriage leg (British FG.1)
DIAS self protection system (HAF)
AFDS gliding submunition dispensing weapon (Autonomous Flight Dispenser System; HAF)
Litening II targeting pod (HAF)
one fuselage centerline bomb rack and four pylon bomb racks
1x 2,345L centerline external fuel tank
1x 4,230L conformal fuel tank under the fuselage (instead of 2,345L centerline tank)
2x 1,420L underwing external fuel tank(s)
2x 4,800L conformal tanks on the sides of the fuselage spine (F-4X)
Matra rocket pods with 18 × SNEB 68 mm rockets each
AGM-62 Walleye
AGM-65 Maverick
AGM-88 HARM
AGM-142 Popeye/Have Nap
SUU-16/A external pod (ram air-powered M61A1 20 mm cannon; 1,200 rounds)
SUU-23/A external pod (self-powered M61A1 20 mm cannon; 1,200 rounds)
Mk82 500lb bomb
Mk84 1000lb bomb
GBU-12 Paveway II 500lb bomb
CBU-87 1000lb cluster bomb
GBU-10 Paveway II unpowered 2000lb bomb
GBU-15 unpowered 2000lb glide bomb
Mitsubishi ASM-1 antiship missile
You have included a few systems/features that never entered service such as YF-4E components. I was under the impression we were talking about existing upgrades, but never mind. If this is the case, you should add to the list some of the following:
*Fly-by-wire flight control system
*Canards
*Pratt&Whiney PW1120 turbofans (These engines are known to actually let the F-4 supercruise)
*1100 gallon conformal fuel tank
*Norden Senthetic Apeture radar
*A one piece windscreen (I have decided not to do this with my sim, in order to keep the classic Phantom look)
*AMRAAM missiles
*Multi function displays
*Wide angle heads-up display
*New IFF system
*Helmit mounted sight and AIM 9X missiles.
*New air data computer and flight control system that will not let the pilot fly beyond aircraft limits.
The source is quite old: http://www.geocities.com/cap17.geo/mycockpit.html The link is dead, but thankfully, there is always webarchive: http://web.archive.org/web/20071226152136/http://www.geocities.com/cap17.geo/mycockpit.html
More beautiful pics of AH-64Ds. Today the official induction ceremony was held, after 3 years of delays…
Not too much of a plan, considering that the region is mostly famous for the tobacco crops and the mosquitos…
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
You are not right to underestimate the tremendous power of the mosquitos in Evros area… The Greek Army is regarding them as a major NBC hazard and is thus heavily supplying its troops with counter bite potions and other protective measures. In the case of a war, they would be a serious threat to be considered by the leaders of any invading army.
Evros paralysing! Turkey accused of secretely forwarding killer mosquitos into greek territory:
«Τα κουνούπια είναι ένα μεγάλο θέμα για μας» δηλώνει ο αντινομάρχης Έβρου κ. Μιχάλης Κογιομτζής και εξηγεί ότι αν δεν πεισθεί το ΥΠΕΞ να θέσει το θέμα στο τραπέζι του διαλόγου με την Τουρκία για να εξευρεθεί απάντηση στο ερώτημα: Τι θα γίνει με την καταπολέμηση των κουνουπιών στην Τουρκία; «Ο Έβρος», όπως τονίζει, «θα είναι παράλυτος για δύο μήνες.»
….
Στον Έβρο, επί του συνόλου του πληθυσμού των κουνουπιών, υπολογίζεται ότι ένα 20 έως 30% αναπαράγεται στην ελληνική πλευρά και το 70% έρχεται από την Τουρκία.
Source: http://www.alexandroupoli.net/news.php?item.843
Devastated! Anti-mosquito potion run out. Greek soldiers complaining the never-ending battle with the mosquitos is unequal and unfair:
Η μάχη με τα κουνούπια γίνεται άνιση και το μόνο που σε ανησυχεί είναι αν τα αποθέματα της αντοχής σου θα κρατήσουν ή θα εξαντληθούν νωρίτερα από τις “250 και σήμερα” που απομένουν.
Source: http://sakostoubox.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/i-klisi-sas-gia-eksodo-epanaprootheitai/
New breed of “Tiger-Mosquito” overwhelming one of Greek Army’s training camps:
Αυτό έλεγα σε μια συζήτηση της προάλλες. Τέτοια κουνούπια σε ΣΚΕΠΑΖΑΝ κυριολεκτικά στο Μεσολόγγι που πήγα στρατό το 1993. Είναι γνωστό ανέκαθεν οτι είναι φορέας ιών.
Source:
http://www.digital-camera.gr/index.php?option=photos&action=view&photo_id=23668
Turkish army not a threat; Multitudes of aggressive mosquitos far greater enemy. Scientists suggest vast areas of Thrace evacuated from civilians:
ΠΕΔΙΑΔΑ ΝΕΣΤΟΥ : Το τρίγωνο Άβδηρα – Τοξότες – Ποντολίβαδο πρέπει να εκκενωθεί απο πληθυσμό . Ο διαρκής αγώνας ενάντια στα κουνούπια κοστίζει χωρίς να δίνει σοβαρό κέρδος . Η περιοχή πρέπει να αφεθεί να ξαναγυρίσει στην προ-ανθρώπου κατάσταση .
source: http://laloslal.t35.com/anamorf.html
A historic moment: Turkey and Greece sign truce, join forces against the common enemy:
Στη σύσκεψη πήραν μέρος οι Νομάρχες Έβρου Νικόλαος Ζαμπουνίδης και Αδριανούπολης Νουσρέτ Μίρογλου, δήμαρχοι των παρέβριων περιοχών και αρμόδιοι υπηρεσιακοί παράγοντες από τους δύο νομούς. Στη σύσκεψη εξετάσθηκαν οι δυνατότητες συνεργασίας των δύο περιοχών και επισημάνθηκε ότι πρέπει να αναληφθούν κοινές δράσεις από τις δύο χώρες για την καταπολέμηση των κουνουπιών.
….
Τέλος αποφασίσθηκε κάθε δύο εβδομάδες να πραγματοποιούνται συναντήσεις της Ελληνικής και Τουρκικής πλευράς, με ευθύνη του Δικτύου Διασυνοριακής Συνεργασίας και στις οποίες θα αναλύονται τα αποτελέσματα της συνεργασίας για την καταπολέμηση των κουνουπιών, θα αξιολογείται η υπάρχουσα κατάσταση και θα προσδιορίζονται οι κοινές δράσεις
Source: http://www.akritasmedia.gr/index.php?Itemid=3&id=527&option=com_content&task=view
P.S. I’m joking of course :dev2::diablo::D:D:D
OK, this was on November so it’s not exactly news, but worth citing anyway. A surprise Exocet test launch was conducted at an abandoned beach in the south of Crete successfully sinking a decommissioned minesweeper. Now, why is this interesting? The exocet missile was not a typical coastal defense MM-40, but rather a shipborne MM-38, which was removed from retired FACs and installed on land based trucks.
HN press release (not much details, but includes hi rez pics)
Well aren’t the Mirage 2000’s principally used in the air defense and anti-ship mission? What else would they need?
As things are right now, yes, that is pretty much what they are used for, BUT…
The F-16 fleet along with the upgraded F-4E PI2000’s have all of the air-to-ground work covered not to mention the remaining A-7 Corsair II’s, which despite their age are still more than capable in the long-range strike mission.
The A-7s have been more or less replaced by newly inducted F-16C/D Block 52Ms of 116 Combat Wing. Soon they will be sold for scrap.
For some reason the peruvians were able to integrate israeli LGBs, the indians managed to add existing stocks of old bombs on their M2ks during the Kargils, and also used LGBs.
Yet the greek can’t use anything else than AM39?
Give me a break Hawk ace.
Nic
Nic, things are more complex than you think, and… there is more than meets the eye. Please, bare with me for a while.
The first batch of M2Ks was bought in the eighties. At that time, it was cold war, and we had a socialist government who threatened to withdraw the country from NATO and shut down US Bases in Araxos and Souda every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Of course they did not really mean it, but it was popular with the voters. Anyway, the HAF needed new fighters at the time, and favoured american F-18Ls. However, the government could not “sell” to the public an-all-american procurement, so french M2K fighters HAD to be bought. And, to sweeten the pill, they were marketed as multiple role fighters. In the long run, the M2K proved to be inadequate in the A2G role, and to justify their buy, antiship Exocets were bought. For everything else that HAF wanted, the M2K based solutions proved either too expensive or simple non existent, please read further on.
Right now, the situation is as follows: The new M2K-5s could have been certified with AM-39s, in fact Dassault had promised to do it for free if we would excercise an option for 3 additional airframes. That option was not excercised and as a sign of… gratitude towards their best european customer, Dassault asked for a huge fee to do it, effectively forcing HAF to deny.
On the other hand, non upgraded M2Ks, after the withdrawal of R530 BVR missiles, they are completely incapable for BVR fight. They cannot possibly be fitted with MICA EM due to legacy RDM radar, and Dassault -what a surprise- asks for a lot of money for their upgrade. Last time I checked, it was a figure close to 35-37 million euros. Also, it’s another way to blackmail for more Rafales, they even offered to purchase non upgraded M2Ks for… bargain price of 8 million euros each, and in return provide us with a few rafales, 5 or 6 IIRC, in combination with another Rafale purchase. Thankfully, the masterbrains (sic) of our previous government rejected that offer.
With our previous french fighters, Mirage F1s we had the same problems, Dassault would not accept in any way whatsoever to help integrating AIM-9Ps on them, so we had to do it on our own, but this way the plane could only carry 2 missiles which would not fully cooperate with its Cyrano radar. We have asked them to help integrate Iris-T (developed with greek industries’ participation) but of course their reply was “buy MICAs”. But they can’t be used without modernisation so… back to square one.
The same with other weapons too. HARM-type missiles are simply not available. When we asked for guided a2g weapons, the answer was -of course- buy AASMs. But they cost roughly as 6 times the price of equivalent american paveways, so we didn’t even bother. The same with Magics, Exocets and so on. In the end, they were all restricted to A2A role, where they can at least make some difference. I had explained that in another thread too, though some members appearently thought we live in an angel-built world…
You mention India and Peru. You are right, though there are differences. M2Ks are the main fighters of FAP (nearly half of their modern fighters), they HAVE to take care of them, upgrade them etc. We on the other hand have a multitude of F-16s and do not have the same access to israeli help. Also, attaching an LGB to a pylon and droping it is one thing, making it work throughout the useful flight envelope of the carrier is another; let alone integrating an targeting pod to do the job. Of course, Dassault could do all these, and has available targeting pods, but simply asks for too much money, and the result simply does not compare -in the majority of cases- with solutions for american carriers. So, though we want to extent their capabilities, we are forced to restrict them in A2A role. But non upgraded M2Ks are sitting ducks in any airfight (except versus any F-4E and F-16 with strike load) and they cannot switch to A2G simply because… they is nothing certified for them. All that is left is TASMO role, just because we need the numbers and because we have the missiles. Otherwise, they are as good as scrap.
In a few words, whenever a french solution for the M2K and previously for the F1s was asked for, it was either non existent, too expensive, or insufficient.
Now, you may wonder why after all this rip-off and extortion tactics we keep buying french? Two reasons: Very good representation and marketing in Athens (read: briberies) and traditionally very good political relations with France. This however has changed and thankfully Rafale is no longer considered for HAF.
To sum it up, I am not against french fighters, quite the contrary. In fact the diversity they offer as well the access to advanced and unknown weapons (MICA EMs are superior to any AIM-120 Turkey posseses, they don’t have anything like SCALP or Exocet or long range IR missiles) is simply put: invaluable. Plus we have the luxury to train our pilots against our own F-16s and develop skills and tactics that will be usefull if and when the time comes.
In all, I think they are excellent machines, but are promoted quite badly.
Sorry for the long post. As a compensation, here are a few beautiful pics of M2K-5s performing CAP missions from Skyros forward AFB:
P.S. Multiple edits, additions
Give me a break Hawk ace.
Nic
I can give as many breaks as you want, but it will take some time, which I don’t have right now. 😮
For the time being, here are a few pics from brand new, just inducted AH-64D Longbow Apaches. They are Army Aviation’s birds rather than HAF’s but still they fly, so… :diablo:
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