Turkey does licence produce F-16 but I don’t think it’s a 100% local content. Can anyone comment on local content percentage?
Turkey DID licence produce F-16. The last batch of 30 Block 50s they received were Fort Worth made.
Also does Turkey produce any of the avionics?
Both yes and no, depending on your definition of “turkish production”.
The problem started in 1991 when the Cold War finished.
If you no longer have a problem, then you don’t need the solution to that problem.
Yeah, but the Pucaras aren’t exactly Argentina’s best combat aircraft, are they? It’s like saying the F-16 was a huge step up for the USAF compared to the A-37: true, but entirely meaningless. The comparison for Argentina should be with the Mirage IIIs & Daggers which the Mirage F.1M replaces.
the article makes no mention to Mirage IIIs; this way and this way alone, the comparison makes perfect sense, which is why the article is ridiculous all along.
they are right in one thing only, that it’s a huge upgrade to the existing Pucaras. It is indeed, like a passage from stone age to copper age. :p
Are you hoping that everyones forgotton that Sloba and his dreadful regime folded up like a cheap suit due to NATO’s involvement. Sure does seem that way. If NATO failed Sloba would have won but he didn’t, he died in prison – what a victory!
You need to check your sources; Operation Allied Force ended in June, 1999. Milosevic was arrested in May, 2001, two good years later. You don’t need a Master’s degree in advanced mathematics to tell the difference.
It was not NATO’s operation that overthrew “Sloba”, it was his own people.
I do not have a “book” – I just look at the known facts. Trying to pick out the facts from Iranian ‘news’ stories on military topics is part of what I do for a living. The only verifiable fact in this case is that a single RQ-170 landed (and probably crash-landed) on Iranian territory. Iran’s story that it took control of the UAV is simply a claim, with no verifiable facts to back it up. What may be significant that this alleged ability by Iran to take control of US UAVs has not been demonstrated by the repeated downing of other US UAVs..
Repetition of an action is useful as a means of proof in scientific experiments; in war matters on the other hand, it’s absolutely useless, in fact it’s not just useless, it’s real madness to reveal all your abilities to your oppenents. Perhaps you would be happy if the Iranians were to publish every detail and give the Americans all they need to develop solutions and countermeasures? That’s not the way it works.
Just for the shake of argument though, I accept that the RQ-170 cannot be proved that it was actually intercepted. This still doesn’t negate my initial statement “whoever tries to get into war with arrogance as his primary weapon, will not have a good time”. You can consult for verification with the pilot of the downed F-117 in Serbia. Or did that, too, crash landed? 😀
No, it is Mercurius Cantabrigiensis talking, and comparing the published sortie totals with the published losses.
No problem with that. So it’s Mercurius Cantabrigiensis agreeing with NATO’s view of things.
Even if we assume that only a tenth of the 38,000 sorties flown under ‘Allied Force’ were combat missions, the loss rate to the defences was minimal. Perhaps you would prefer that I accept the unproven claims that the defences shot down 60+ NATO aircraft?
That’s exactly fundamental in NATO’s view, they failed with the mission, so they play with statistics. I don’t really care about how many sorties there were, or how many losses (obviously not many, since Milosevic opted not to fight under his oppenent’s ultimate favorable conditions), but rather I care about the final result, which was like I said, a miserable failure towards the initial goal. The NATO enjoyed absolute air supremacy, yet they failed not only to overthrow Milosevic’ regime, but even to find and destroy his military. You want to use this laughable experience as an example of what to do? Be my guest.
As for the ‘reality’ of the politics of the Balkan situation, and the degree to which the US and NATO achieved their goals in 1999, this is not a subject that interests me, or one in which I wish to express an opinion.
Exactly, why bother? Simply declare that you don’t care about the end result so that you don’t have to face the facts, and all is fine.
Unfortunately, this whole debate started on that very basis, on whether the example of Serbia would be proper in Syria too. So if you don’t care to be interested in that, it’s fine, but it’s also off-topic.
In 1991 it was failed leadership of Gorbi that failed to capitalize on crises. Russia with right leader at that time could have encouraged Syria/Iran to back Iraq against Saudi. this would have prolonged the conflict with all the associated benefits of higher oil prices & money printing for war effort.
…and consequently, if Russia had a more potent leader, the US would adapt their policy better, like dedicating more forces on the mission, seeking more allies in the neighborhood, or provoking internal unrest in Iraq (rings any bell?) or discouraging Saddam from invading Kuwait altogether. That’s the problem with “ifs”. One if brings another, and then another, and another et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. History is not written on the basis of “ifs”, but rather on what actually happened, and the truth is that regardless of one’s interpretation of the reasons, Russia at that time did not oppose the assault on Iraq, in fact, they encouraged it. That’s not the case today. Today I think it’s safe to assume that if it was not for Russia, Assad would have fallen already.
I dont see there is anything left for bargaining with west. Russia primariy goal is higher energy prices which only can be ensured by instability in Middleast.
You can never know for sure. International diplomacy is highly unpredictable, One could bargain anything these days, from delivering a high-profile individual, to the non-delivery of important weapons to unfriendly nations, or the easing of antarctic natural resources claims, to escalate a bit. All depending on how badly they may want something.
Aren’t Cypriots Orthodox Christians?
Yes. A little more fanatic than average, I may add.
permission to conduct combat missions?. Cyprus is going to use politically acceptable language in begining.
If Russian settled in airbase they will use it with full autonomy and Cyprus can do nothing about it. Cyprus realizes only Russia can provide economics and military protection.
Cyprus has realised that for a long time, the catch is that Russia is mostly using Cyprus, exactly due to that lack of options.
The deal for the airbase use is expected to be signed during the Cypriot president visit to Moscow later this year. Cyprus will get to restructure it’s loan and I think it’s basically a done deal.
Note that it may be a done deal by merely today’s data. Tomorrow data may change, and with them, the deal.
Even if it’s not a done deal however, the mere announcement of such an intent, may be enough for the desired effect.
I was under the impression Assad cannot run for a third term under Syria’s new Constitution adopted in February 2012? :confused: In any case, I doubt Assad wants to be prez under the current situation. Probably no good night’s sleep over the past 28 months.
Don’t know about that, but either way the country is in a defacto state of war, there is no constitution applicable, and it’s not the first time either, even Roosvelt run for a third term. Even if the clashes could end tomorrow morning, so to speak, it would take quite a while until free election could be successfully held.
Why? There ws no need to consult or even seek approval from Russia for the Iraqi no fly zone that ws implemented in 1991 and remained in place by 2003.
You compare apples with steaks.
a) In 1991, Russia was in ruins. Nobody knew if it would even break further apart. Today things are… well, slightly different.
b) Russia never disagreed with Desert Storm, or the consequent no fly zone In fact, Russia had voted in favor of all UN resolutions against Iraq. Today Russia does disagree, not because they admire Assad or love the Syrian people, but because of interests.
Even if tomorrow they back down and allow Assad’s overthrown, it will be because they will have gotten something else in return, either in Syria itself or somewhere else. Has been happening in international diplomacy between superpowers for centuries.
Clearly you are one of the believers that think Russia is going to use military force if the US/NATO or a Coalition set up a unilateral no fly zone? Even a limited one in the North of Syria? Russia is not going to lift a finger to support Assad if push comes to shove. You have completely taken the offer of air bases in Cyprus out of context. Do you seriously think that Cyprus is going to allow Russia to mount combat operations from their territory to oppose a no fly zone? Seriously?
The use of the air base will be for an evacuation scenario where a transport hub would be established. The same goes for Cypriot port facilities. You are off into fantasy land if you think that the Cypriot Government are offering the use of these facilities for a combat scenario.
The Black Sea Fleet have been conducting numerous exercises in support of an evacuation scenario of Russian nationals in Syria.
http://rusnavy.com/news/newsofday/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16823
If you ask if I think a Russian air presence would be enough to stop a no fly zone, I answer clearly not. On the other hand, the presence of the 8th US Army in South Korea by itself is not going to stop a Norts’ invasion either. It’s the commitment and symbolism that matters. You obviously fail to grasp that.
Interception? All we know is that an RQ-170 crash-landed in Iranian territory. The circumstances and cause are still unknown.
The only ones denying that is the Americans themselves. Hardly surprising in my book.
NATO flew hundreds of sorties per day, and a degraded Yugoslav air-defence system managed to down only a handful of NATO aircraft. To these ageing eyes, this looks like a pretty good suppression of the air defences by NATO.
That’s the NATO press release talking. In reality, Mr Clinton and NATO set out to invade Serbia and eventually overthrow Mr Milosevic, and only managed to make themselves look like fools in a classic David vs Goliath scenario, having achieved nothing at the end of the day.
Your link says fighters fly low to be un detected. since the close distance between two countries it is far easy to get undetected unless already notified.
US has rule out military solution. Arabs will be disappointed.
Any no fly zone in Syria would need to have Russia’s approval, which is not due any time soon, not as long as the Tarsus naval base is still active.
In addition, according to this article on a cypriot daily newspaper (a version in English quoting the article here), the Russians have officially asked (and got) permission to use the Paphos air base for military operations. So… a no fly zone in Syria? Good luck with that.
You actually believe Iranians with their QF313 BSplane, their knock offs of 1970s designs and grand statements of superiority?
And it would appear Iranian definition of advanced avionics is commercially available systems for Cessna’s.
You also completely disregard such things as jammers etc as well.
The iranians themselves may be big mouths, no question about it; however, leaving flamboyant announcements aside, the recent interception of a US RQ-170 proves beyond any doubt that whoever tries to get into war with arrogance as his primary weapon, will not have a good time, to say the least.
Erm they’re enforcing a no-fly zone. If they’re going to be doing CAS like over Libya, then call in Tomahawks, B-2s and massed strike packages to turn the crappy Syrian AD system to junk.
The exact same attitude was a miserable failure in Serbia though, so I wouldn’t put my money on it.
There wqasn’t any trouble with Greece adopting Russian systems (or Turkey for that matter or South Korea – ok , the latter is not NATO but similarly US ally)
It’s a free market!
The only Russian systems we bought on purpose were a few Tor M1s (the man who bought them is now in jail over a bribe scandal), Kornet ATGMs and 3 zubr LCACs (plus 1 from Ucraine), mostly because there was no real equivalent in western inventory – only two of these zubrs are operational. That’s about it. Nothing of strategic importance. SA8s, Zu-23s and BMP1s were inherited for free by former East Germany surplus. The only real big time procurement was the 450 BMP3s in 2007, and we all know the fate of that government.
S300s were never procured on purpose, instead they were inherited from Cyprus for free and traded over for other equipment, in fact our Air Force never wanted them, because it prevented the procurement of additional Patriot batteries and had to support two totally different hi-sam systems. 15 years later, our S300 batteries have not fired not a single missile in exercises, not even for certification, to see if the damn thing actually works.
It’s not really a free market… politics make the world go round. You can’t have your allies depending on your enemies for their defense, it’s a contradiction in terms.
Since when does NATO have a problem with China?
Since… always?
still, that’s very nice growth potential.
Not many real pics published for the F-35 with a Weapons Load. Yet, I did see a good one with a F-35B loaded for bear with Cluster Bombs but couldn’t find it???
there is one in the previous page, but it’s a diagram, not the real thing.
in other news…

So why didn’t Warpac members buy more MiG-23s instead of relying on MiG-21 which was proven to be easily countered by F-16 over Bekaa Valley in 1982? Indeed in 1970 Soviet pilots flying MiG-21s were thumped by Israelis flying Mirages and F-4s.
the answer is simple: economics. Remember how the Cold War ended, with the economic collapse of the USSR. That collapse did not happen in one night, it had begun years ago, due to a fundamentally flawed economic system. USSR’s allies were in even worse state, and since most of their military procurements were based on soviet aid, their ability to select and buy material on their own was extremely limited. In other words, they did know MiG-23s were worth upgrade to MiG-21s, and they did want to upgrade to MiG-23s and MiG-29s, they just couldn’t.