Originally posted by weasel
I can’t believe that you would seriously be mentioning hands off recoverys. If you’ve spun C152s then yes they probably will recover very easily, maybe even hands off but I suspect that is more to do with their forward c of g than because they’ll come out every time.
It has to do with the inherent Postive Static Stability of the aircraft not CG. Your apprehension is fed by poor education and demonstation.
You can’t be sure that the aircraft is going to come out. We’re not talking a 1 in 7 chance here, the odds are much much longer, but they’re still there.
Ah, more fabricated stats. Again, 60 years of training spins at my flight school and there are no fatalities or accidents as a result. Allow for a enough altitude to complete a 4 turn spin and you’ll be fine. Please quote me your source for accidents ratios.
As an example take the ex-RAF trainer the Bulldog. If the recovery is botched, ie stick back-pressure relaxed before rudder input, the aircraft goes high-rotational.
Release of back pressure before addition of rudder? I’ve never heard of a recovery even close to that. Isn’t it neutralize controls, opposite rudder, forward yoke and recover? I’ve never heard of an addition of back pressure as that will extend the stall state.
All actual in flight shutdowns are usually done under VMC at a safe altitude in easy reach of a suitable airfield. It contains an elememt of risk but that risk is properly managed.
Funny that you would consider a intentional emergency an suitable risk as long as it’s properly mananged yet you are arguing to no end that doing the same for spin training is unacceptable.
Instructors are taught to teach spinning because it’s in the syllabus, but your “instructor” instructor obviously didn’t give you the health warning mine did to me. And, incidentally, that health warning was given by my instructor examiner and has been re-inforced during a renewal by an ex-RAF “instructor” instructor.
Health warning? First I didn’t realize that there was a health risk involved with spinning. Perhaps if one is at risk for health related issues they shouldn’t be flying. Second, you spin apprihension is perpetuated from one pilot to the next just as you “stats” that prove it’s a fatal training procedure. Also just because someone was in the military doesn’t make them the be-all and end-all of pilot information. There are just as military idiot pilots as there are private sector pilots. Trust me, I’ve ended up flying with most of the idiots.
Why be a dinosaur and persist with your macho stuff with spinning.
A dinosaur? What changed in the last 20 years that made spin training outdated? The laws of physics didn’t shift did they?
By taking your arguments to a logical conclusion we should all be taking our aircraft into the circuit and stalling and spinning them right there because that’s how it’s going to happen.
I never said that this is where it’s going to happen. Through a 15 hour student into an airplane for a solo practice of stalls and other manuvers and their inexperience can easily lead to them in advertantly spinning an aircraft. I’ve personally been there as have my students. It happens. Improper rudder or wind shift and send a power-on stall into a spin before you know it. If you haven’t experienced that yet as an instructor then it’s a matter of time.
The training cycle puts every student pilot into many stituations that if not handled properly can put them in a spin. I’ve talked to plenty of FAA inspectors that have found themselves staring at the spinning earth as a result of the pilot applicant (both the fault of the pilot and as a result of outside factors). While performing power-on stalls with an Instrument student in a C172 we suddenly entered a spin with no corrolating input from myself or the student. I took the aircraft(As he was under the hood) and recovered from the spin. Assuming that the student had done something to cause our spin we did attempted the stall again with the same result but with the student recovering. It seems an unnoticeable inadvertant adjustment to the fixed rudder trim tab had thrown off our ability to control the aircraft in slow flight even though the ball was centered.
It can happen, and believing other wise is fooling yourself and your student. Not preparing your student for every possiblity is cheating them.
Rubbish. Emphasise the basics (aviate- navigate-communicate, etc) and to react quickly to the first sign of a stall. After all, how many aircraft will actually stall if you ease the back pressure on the stick anyway.
“Teach them to fly only on calm, clear, smooth days and during daylight hours and equip them with only enough knowledge so they don’t kill themselves?”
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