denlopviperI have read all ur posts. all are wrong and contridictory. and what is meant by munitions. this new thing u invent now when u cant back up the previous. and is live firing all needed to select a BVR missile? there is alot more to it.
you know ur problem……ur rite and everyone else is wrong…if u dont know the term munitioins….then i dont haav anything else to say to you
now even u can make a list of weopons in less than a day and PAF cant make it in one year. and not all of them are important.
ya i can……i dun hav the army to eat up my budget…i dont hav to goto DGMP….i dun havta goto the MoD….
u are mixing present and future. and any way with all TOT PAF will have at some point the capability to integrate weopons from different sources but it will take long time to achieve with JF-17 and most of current weopons may not be relevant.
you dont u just say it…PAF doesnt know **** abt wats its doing does it…?….so PAF is gonna give sidewinders/mavrick/harpoons to china for intergration huh….i bet the US will be thrilled at this….nice….i mean you are buying this jet so that it can replace most of your fleet of mirages, A-5 n F-7P…..there goes your ENTIRE fleet of strikers….i just wonder if all systems are not intergrated in the JF…wat exactly is the point of buy the jet which cant opearted with our weapons?
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yea only if u have a huge budget to play with….do u hav any idea the support equipement like testbeds and spares would cost if u have 2 different avionics packages from different origins on the same airframe…….u started that there can be another source of avionics. now u are saying it is not. so which
theres gonna be ONE source of avionics……
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funny….cuz everywhere i have read ON THE NET….its an AEW&C system…it just show from where ur information is coming from.
wanna tell me your source on this……here is mine
http://www.ericsson.com/products/hp/ERIEYE_pos.shtml
just goes to show u know ****
denlopviperu cant get shipments without contract. which company in world will allow it ship its BVR missile to integrate into local fighter. this thing is alot more complicated than u think.
have PAF ever evaluated AIM-120 or it is just buying based on paper specification.
go back to my post…..i said MUNITIONS……PAF has been present at live firing of AIm-120s
60 block 50 based on what source? news in media are for public consumption.
and how difficult is finalizing weopon specification. F-16 has only one or two important weopons and thats it. funny u change subject from aircraft specification to weopon package.
come over…n i`ll show you my source on the numbers of airframes……number of imp weapons…lemme count em….1 HARMS, 2 AMRAAMs, 3 -9M/L, 4 Durandalz, 5 Mavricks….not to mention guidence n tail unit for the LGBz……now that all cant be sumed up in 1 or 2 imp weapons…..
which weopons are ur referring to? there is big difference between past and future. and u will know this during flight tests.
reffering to all systems currently in service with the PAF….now im pretty sure the US wont allow us to let the chinese intergrate mavricks n harpoons on the JF….
surely it is that easy to buy TOT from two different sources and do the integration.
yea only if u have a huge budget to play with….do u hav any idea the support equipement like testbeds and spares would cost if u have 2 different avionics packages from different origins on the same airframe…….
now that is laughable. Erieye is AEW to begin with and u can upgrade to include command and control but more important is communication system.
funny….cuz everywhere i have read ON THE NET….its an AEW&C system…
denlopvipernopes….R-550 were pulled from service a long time back….R-530z are in cold storage and will proabbly be scraped soon… ROSE I/II give the mirages a new radar n better avionics…the package still isnt perfect yet
denlopviperI would be very presumptuous on my part to claim I “build” modells, so far what I have achieved in skill level is better described as bashing plastic pieces them together in a crude way to resemble a modell. In younger years I also used to build balsawood and silkpaper rubber propelled planes. The “realistic” assembly of spars, ribs and struts did appeal to me, and still does.
I´ve glued together WW2 planes, mostly, Stuka, Storch, 109, Tempest, Hurricane and the sort and some civvies (Beech Staggerwing, Cessnas, Pipers, etc).
Modern jet fighters are not my (fauvorite) subject, but the Tomcat, Jaguar, Harrier and a few others “I´m ugly and mean looking” planes are a must for any builder, I guess.King Jester
lolzz @ IM UGLY N MEAN LOOKING ….but sooo true…..im mostly into modren jet…more like im more into BIG stuff…32nd scale stuff and the bombers in 48th scale…..just love building big…..makes a good show :D….but not exactly a die-hard modeller thought….just build when i have enough pocket money to afford the kit 😀
denlopviperits been announced PAF will buy 150 JFz……and might up it to 250 units…..
If you want to integrate a weapon with a fighter so the control software can get it launched, you will have to know exactly how the software works. I’m sure it’s not just a matter of plug and play. If you want to integrate a new weapon, you have to work with the radar/control systems developer on this. I don’t think you have any idea of the complexity of coding that goes on in fighter jets. Not something that you can just pick up through ToT.
i know how complicated weapons intergration is……its a joint project…..and PAF and agencies like AWC PAC PMO n NDC have been involvoed in every dept…
one example being……PAF intergrated AIM-9P/L on F-7P/PG , F-6 and A-5s….china had no part in the intergrations
denlopviperu seem to have difficulty in understanding what i wrote.ur answer on integration was way of the mark. i didnot said that PAF hast bought anything from SA. I was merely asking when the contracts were signed? u dont have any clue on this thing. delivery schedule does not matter.
who said any thing about delivery schedules?…..i said we GOT those shipments…..and you know as well as i do during evaluations n tests NO CONTRACTS are signed
and how difficult is making specification of F-16. wasnt there a meeting between US and Paf last August on it and they were about to notify just before the earth quake or they were going without specification.? and French and US radars for JF-17. u must be out of mind. after spending money and time on Chinese avionics u are going to replace it overnight. this is laughable. and where is French radar for Mirage III?. and when has US selling radars to other fighters. even erieye deal after MOU is under threat of revision. just look at the words lowest and best for AWACS.
just look at how F-16s are going……a few weeks back…it was PAF is purshase MORE USED vipers n a few ( upto 30) NEW BLOCK 50 Vipers…….today it is UPTO 60 NEW BLOCK 50/52 ( weapons package not finalized yet) and 25 USED Vipers……i wouldnt call that any specs hav been finalized….if u will….i cant see how
as for JF….all weapons intergration will be done by AWC n PAC at minhas…..not in china……
as for the claim that pakistan has openly said 1st 50 will use chinese avionics and radars…..now it just wouldnt make sense if half of you fleet of JF-17s are using chinese avioincs n radar…n the rest western systems……would it?……
ab the EriEye……PAFs specs asked for an AEW config….not the AEW&C systems which the EriEye originally is…..
denlopviperbelieve it or not….we have been importing munitions from SA on large scale for qutie some time not….sanctions or no sanctions….shipments came thru chartered flights direct from SA to karachi intl….flight being handled by PAF staff….weapons offloaded were moved to 105 AED n 102 AED…..from there shiped to MOBz using C-130z…..105 is the largest weapons storage facility in PAF…..toping out at 60,000 tons of munitions…..these include data for the entire Darter family……if u dont want to belive me…then not my problem……just dont be shocked if u see a few of them with us for live fire tests
and how can u claim THERE CANT BE ANY OTHER BVRM ON THE JF-17 ASIDE FROM CHINESE MISSILES?…..do you any of the ops requiremnt of the JF?….JF-17s ar to be produced locally, with the way things are going…JF might fly with french or US radars….
abt F-16s……final specs havnt been decided as of yet…
denlopviperdenlopviper…point was that integration can be and is performed locally. BTW, what do u mean by we dont have any other AAM in service rite now? Is your point exclusive to F-7PGs?
the only air to air missile in service with PAF today is the Aim-9L/P….thats it
If PAF simulated R-DARTERS, Denloviper’s pet cat would’ve been the first one to know.
LOLZ…i dun hav a cat….even if i had one..i sure as hell wouldnt be talking to it cuz it wont understand me…if ur cat is such a genious, contact hollywood 😛
Well mate, most of us (probably?) dont have cousins or uncles working in AFs or defence factories, and our knowledge is based upon newspapers. Having said this, defence related magazines are ‘generally’ more credible than ordinary newspapers when it comes to defence related news. Finally, let me rephrase the question…if this news of simulating R-Darter turns out to be true, then why did PAF did so?
lolz…..my point was just directed at newspapers…..defence magz are usually very reliable
PAF was interested in the south african munitions in early 2005….we went as far as puttin up a reqest for a technical attache in SA…darter family was the primary weapon in particuler PAf was lookin at….thats just it….we had the data for the r-daters…..thing is…you work with wat you have….and not wat you may get…..dater family was hot top in 2004/05 in PAF….hence the news….you dont go and simulate a weapon you dont hav in a massive exercise like high mark…..this is done on a smaller scale exercises…..and besides….to simulate a weapon, you aircrew must be trained for that weapon, n the jetz computers programed to handle the weapon..
denlopviperdenlopviper…No doubt that such integrations are not easy. However regarding R-530s integration on F-16s, I assume PAF would need advanced permission from US and France for such a task. Would US allow it? Would PAF have access to source codes for the equipment? It was only last year (i think) when China offered pl-11 for Pakistani F-16s. Yet i cant imagine PAF being able to get permission from US for such a thing. OTOH, if i recall correctly, Alan Warnes of AFM in his aritlc on PAF did mention a combination of Aim-9L and Grifo on F-7PG while PAF F-6s were also equipped with sidewinders during their era.
BTW, what do u think of PAF fighters simulating R-Darter (reported in the latest edition of Air International) during High Mark 2005 Exercises???
9L/P have been flying on F-7PGs from the day those jets got into operation units…..we dont have any other AAM in service rite now….rails that hold the sidewinders on F-6,F-7P/PG are manufactured at AWC…intergration is also done by them n PAC at Minhas…
you hear alot of things in the news paper lolzz…south african AAMs were evaluated….and chances are we might buy them as a last resort
denlopviperintergration mean to config the airframe to carry a specific weapon or give it a specific capability…look up intergration in a dictionary….the jets software needs to be configured so that it can arm, give commands, and launch the weapon, in other word controll the weapon….hardware like the pylon and the station on which the weapon will be carried needs modifications as well…
no state secrets…like DUH…IAF or any other airforce knowz and watchs our exercises and live firing…..if u monitor them..you know which airframe is configured to carry which weapon and how many of em….no big deal….and considering that IAF and PAF knowz exactly how much life each n every single airframe of the opposing force has left….weapons intergration is no big deal…
why would mirages need mavricks…..considering they will perform SEAD duty and CAS, mavricks would be very very handy….
R-530 is a BVRM…..the only 2 jets with limited BVR capability are the mirages n F-16s…..it would make sense to have both types fly with BVRMs instead of just one type….
denlopviperkool…thanx
denlopvipermakes sense 😀 :diablo:
btw…anyone has a video of the flanker going thru the 2 building…or a link..a pic….
denlopviperabt the anti terror crap……AGM-154A is a cluster bomb u know….where exactly in anti-terror are we gonna use them…..i seriosuly doubt afghanistan will let PAF bomb across the line……we sure as ehll aint gonna bomb anything near the LoC or the indian border….who we gonna bomb with em?….dera bukti, wana?…..jeeeeeeez man wake UP
denlopvipercome again….ALREADY INTERGRATED???……you kidding me….if it was that easy to intergrate a weapon to a jet….dont you think our R-530/550 would have also flown on F-16s as well???….who u kidding man….btw R530z are still in cold storage
do ou hav any idea just how difficult n expensive weapons intergration of this sort is??….you just dont put the damn thing on the pylon and expect it to work……
oh btw do u know…only the ROSE modified mirages carry the H2/H4…and that too only ONE SINGLE missile on the centerline station…..H2/H4 hav NOT BEEN INTERGRATED ON OUR F-16s or any other fighter in PAFz inventory…..then again….AGM-65 mavricks have never been intergrated on mirages…..if intergration were that simple, mirages would be flyign with mavricks
and if u say its been intergrated and fielded….mind telling me the units that hav qualified for JSOW?….i know Mushaf, Rafique or Minshas didnt take any diliverys of JSOW…i know for sure 9,11th n 25th sqdnz havnt seen any JSOW (9th n11th operate F-16s n 25th operates Mirages III/V Rose II)……i know the acas aircrafts, electronics, ops n weapons never signed anythign that aproved JSOW….unless you give me a unit n an airframe number thats been qualified for AGM-154s…you are bull****ing man
denlopviperif the hole is large enough….its doable…im crazy enough to try it
flying straight through, or invetered isnt a challenge if you have good enough clearnce…..pass thru it doing aleron rollz, now you are talking
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