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Yama

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  • in reply to: Official List of Aircraft Price thread #2126463
    Yama
    Participant

    Just so we are clear, you are saying that India is not producing Su-30MKIs at roughly $75 million apiece?

    I am well aware of the extremely low prices quoted in the media for Russian fighters, but as I already explained, these numbers do not represent apples to apples comparisons with Western designs.

    It’s true Su-30 sales have been often reported for very low prices:
    -Malaysia 18 Su-30MKM’s (and two Malaysian cosmonauts for ISS) for $900M, 50 million USD per plane in 2003. Configuration is very similar to MKI, ie. top-end.
    -Algeria, latest order was 14 aircraft reportedly for $500M, 36 million each, but this price estimate might have been guess by journalists.
    -Venezuela, latest order (2015) is 12 Su-30’s for $480M, 40 million per plane. I don’t know avionics etc. configuration of Venezuelan planes.
    -Vietnam, 2013 order of 12 planes was reportedly for $450M, $37,5million per plane. However this order has been also reported as $600 million (50 million per plane).
    -Uganda’s 2011 order of six aircraft was for $740 million – 123 million per aircraft!

    This news article examines Vietnamese deals, and mentions that 8 Su-30’s were $400M “without weapons” in 2009, next 12 “with weapons and spares” were $1 billion (83 million per plane) and next 12 were $600 million. Seems to me that some of the quoted very low prices for Su-30 deals cover only part of the deal, maybe only the initial batch, also they apparently often include only the planes themselves, not any accompanying spares etc (note the analoguous controversy about F-35 vs Super Hornet pricing in Danish evaluation). Also, Su-30 is available in variety of configurations, not all of which feature thrust vectoring engines and state-of-the-art avionic sets. I also wonder if some extraordinaly low prices were actually refurbished Su-27UB’s which were given Su-30 type avionics sets and weapon wirings.

    Ugandan deal probably is the most comparable “all inclusive” deal similar to what Western manufacturers offer to 3rd world countries: weapons, spares, simulators, training, support etc. If so, $123 million apiece is still reasonably cheap, but not “omg I’ll buy a hundred” cheap.

    in reply to: Jaguar M vs Entendard #2128225
    Yama
    Participant

    Nothing to be embarrassed about as far as combat record is concerned.
    Sinking a Type 42 destroyer is what made the a/c known to the public. But the Super etendard did a lot of more usual A2G war missions with little advertising.

    Yes, and none were ever lost in combat. There is a video somewhere of Etendard IVP making emergency landing after being hit by SAM. They even worked in fighter duties once Crusaders were getting long in the tooth.
    Etendard airframe was quite unremarkable even when it was conceived in early ’50s, so it is fairly mind-boggling that it flew (in heavily modified form) as front-line combat a/c until 2016. So maybe it had something going for it after all.

    But really, what French should have really done was to build 100 feet longer carriers, that would have enabled them to operate common US types, or at least more capable domestic types like Jaguar M, navalized Mirage F1 etc. without complications. Building small carriers maybe felt like cost saving at the time, but turned other way around later.

    in reply to: Small Air Forces Thread #16 #2129268
    Yama
    Participant

    https://scontent-icn1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/15129024_618228858359996_2292362541658176605_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=7501855a90974fd6791eebbd9ddae14f&oe=58E00D79

    Is that a Redigo behind the tail? When was this pic taken?

    in reply to: PLAN News Thread #4 #2009967
    Yama
    Participant

    Sovremenny 136 & 137 are getting the biggest upgrade. 2x Type-1130 CIWS , up to 32x HHQ-16 VLS tubes, 24x round FL-3000N launcher, and possibly an unknown anti-ship missiles replacing the 8x Moskit.

    Oh no, I hope they don’t remove 130mm guns… 😮

    in reply to: Russian Navy Thread 2. #2010084
    Yama
    Participant

    I don’t think it had much if anything to do with potential use of nuclear warheads. Echo II was obsolete by 1980’s, it was built to 1950’s paradigm, a small mass-produced boat, not particularly fast and certainly not quiet design. Also the boat had to surface to fire Shaddocks (not sure about later missiles), a major handicap.

    Krestas carried only small missile load but they had good area AAW capabilities, not too common in Soviet surface combatants. Also they had helicoptes. There probably simply was no plan to upgrade those ships as they were going out anyway, most of them were decommissioned even before USSR disintegrated and Kyndas were next to go other than Golovko.

    in reply to: Aviation cruisers (i.e. Kiev Class), yay or nay? #2010251
    Yama
    Participant

    Well, AFAIK first three Kievs could not operate Yak-41M, only Baku could. The carriers would have needed a refit and I am not sure Soviet Navy was up for it, even though Yak-41 undoubtely would have made the ships much more useful. Kuznetsov, Varyag and Ulyanovsk would not have needed Yak-41. So even if they had proceeded with it, it would have served only niche role and procured in small numbers. Indians and maybe some other foreign navies would have probably bought it however.
    It became moot when USSR collapsed, Russia only had money to operate 1 carrier, if that.

    in reply to: Aviation cruisers (i.e. Kiev Class), yay or nay? #2010270
    Yama
    Participant

    Aviation cruisers made sense – somewhat – for naval strategy and operational concept Soviet Navy had. It would have been pointless for Soviets to counter US carrier hegemony with carrier force of their own, instead they built an asymmetric, essentially defensive concept of heavy, long-range antiship missiles to counter US carriers long range striking power. Since those missiles were bulky, they needed large ships to carry them and when you have large warships around, it is not a bad idea to have some of them carry aircraft for defence, AEW and ASW duties. However, the main combat a/c – Yak-38 – was disappointing and AEW was limited to relatively weak helicopters of the era. And of course the ships themselves weren’t (and aren’t) so great, with serious propulsion issues.

    Nowadays with miniaturization of technology there is less need for huge cruisers carrying gigantanormous missiles around. As we have seen, a corvette-sized vessel can carry warload of supersonic AShM’s nearly as powerful as those Bazalts and Granits of old. So that’s one raison d’être for those ships gone. Tactically, surface combatant and aircraft carrier need to be treated differently and it is a conundrum for commander of a squadron if one of his ships combines both roles. I don’t see any meaningful role for an ‘aviation cruiser’ in todays environment. It is better to build a dedicated carrier and put your missiles on combatants and escorts. Open question is, whether there is place for ‘command cruiser’ type combatant, which has size & height for very powerful AEW and AAW radars, or whether it is better to have those capabilities on carrier too, if you have one.

    Yama
    Participant

    The Yak-41 was doomed from the start because it relied on separate lift engines. A colossal inefficiency. Not saying it wasn’t a big jump from Yak-38M, but then again Yak-38M was a colossal failure compared to Harrier.

    Imagine if Yakovlev put aside personal pride and had developed an equivalent to Harrier. I can only imagine the monster they would have unleashed. Soviet high bypass turbofan technology probably would have become a higher priority.

    Yak-36 had swivelling nozzles like Harrier and such arrangements were considered for Yak-38 too. But there was no suitable engine available. Besides, Yak-38 was always meant to be a “practice” fighter, interim design on the way towards more powerful, supersonic V/STOL fighter.

    Also, there are no free lunches. Although Harrier is much superior aircraft to Yak-38, those nozzles cause considerable loss of thrust compared to more conventional exhausts. There is a reason why supersonic V/STOL designs mostly have lift engines or -fans.

    Yama
    Participant

    Orel was meant to have MiG-23’s, though?

    Yama
    Participant

    I dont think you realise how big those thermal system are. More than enough space to change the focal length around

    If it was trivial as you suggest, then we wouldn’t see specialized IR systems at all. In fact often attack pods have multiple separate cameras. LANTIRN, for example, has FLIR in two separate pods – one with fixed wide FoV field, other with zoomable optics for narrow view. LITENING has two TV cameras and one FLIR sensor, and so on. They wouldn’t bother with multiple cameras if they could just do all that with zoomable optics.

    Yama
    Participant

    Not really , you can choose your momentary FoV depending on the focal length. That the whole point of optical zoom.

    Yes, in theory. And to some extent in practice too, but you will end up having bulky optical system with inferior optical quality. There is a reason why photographers generally carry a bag of different lenses and change them depending on their needs, instead of one zoomable lens which does everything.

    Yama
    Participant

    TBH, There is no real evidence as to why EOTS should be inferior to others IRST like OLS-35 or FSO.. etc in air to air role.

    IR systems are optics, and laws of optics are pretty ruthless: if you want great resolving power, you are forced to sacrifice field of view, and if you want good field of view, there goes resolving power. Attack pods are designed for identifying ground targets, and generally have good resolving power but poor FoV and scan rates. A2A IRST systems by contrast need to find aerial targets preferably before they find you, and need high scan rates and largish FoVs, similar to radar in A2A mode.

    Of course, there is nothing to stop you from putting multiple lenses into system which provide you both capabilities, but that costs you weight & bulk. This is why only few IR systems are designed to work as both FLIR and IRST.

    All that said, LockMart claims that in A2A mode, EOTS has scan rates similar to radar, so it remains to be seen what exactly are its a2a capabilities.

    in reply to: Russia moving tac air troops to Syria #2138644
    Yama
    Participant

    I don’t understand why one may think this is a humiliation for Turkey? It was actually something very bad for SyAAF, or SAA in general. That their pilots can go mad or bought via $$ to do something that had the potential to start a war, cost Assad his regime, or at very least could have made things very difficult for Syria, Turkey, Russia (plus Iran, Iraq etc) altogether…

    I very much doubt SyAAF deliberately targeted Turkish forces. If this map is accurate, then the strike took place where FSA/Turks had recently began a pincer movement and the pilot was probably acting simply on outdated intel.

    in reply to: Canadian Fighter Replacement #2141388
    Yama
    Participant

    Vietnam was roughly 50 years ago though so it doesn’t have a lot of relevance to what we are talking about.

    However, the basic requirement was similar: provide extra range for a combat jet. It is true that many EFT’s of today have functions far beyond the simple fuel bag and are correspondingly much more expensive (Super Hornet IRST pod/fuel tank is a good example, dropping those gets pretty expensive quick…), but that is for convenience rather than necessity.

    in reply to: Finland Air Force #2141431
    Yama
    Participant

    The F-35B or F-35C are just as capable of dispersed basing as the Gripen or Super Hornet.

    Rest assured that F-35B and -C are not considered. As for dispersed basing, there probably isn’t that much difference between the contenders. It was already practised with Draken and MiG, which have horrible landing strip requirements compared to modern fighters.

Viewing 15 posts - 211 through 225 (of 599 total)