The MiG-21bis could be configured to carry a dual R-60 launch setup on the outer stations with a K-13 on the inboard stations with the usual tank on the centerline station. The MiG-21bis was much cheaper to operate for former-Eastern-bloc countries until better options or requirements for NATO compatibility became apparent. Aerostar and IAI had upgrade programs for the MiG-21 in the 90s, but they never really took off aside from the Lancers in Romania. MiG came out with the MiG-21-93 which evolved into the Bison for India, which turned out to be a nice upgrade.
I wonder, if Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact had hung around bit longer, would Soviets have produced similar upgrade packages for MiG-21? Soviet air force probably would not have been interested, but Eastern bloc nations might have. Seems unlikely they could have afforded large fleets of MiG-29’s.
Thats’s a way of looking at it but Su-24 had more development potential. Upgraded MiG-29s could take over over MiG-23/27/Su-17 roles.
But those upgraded MiG-29’s stayed mostly vapourware. Of course Su-24 was in most ways much more capable, but it is also expensive to maintain and requires crew of two and has poor reliability record. Su-17 would have been simpler while sharing same engine than Su-24.
AFAIR MiG-21bis had 4 hardpoints for missiles. I don’t see how K-13 in the late 80s was such a good thing as the missile was obsolete.
Wasn’t there some upgrade allowing 6 missile hardpoints?
Thanks a lot !
I think one reason why Mig-21bis may be in service along with other later versions is that they could be used as point defence interceptors in Eastern Europe where distances were not too much and lack of BVR was not a huge disadvantage.NATO had several AF with F-5A and Mirage 5 in service as well
It is also a matter of simply having service life left in an aircraft, if you start retiring a/c before their useful service life is over, you soon either go bankrupt trying to buy all newest & hottest, or run short of airframes. Soviet MiG-21bis production ended in 1977? With 20-year service life it means they were good for mid-90s.
This decision happened under Yeltsin, not Gorbachev. It made sense only because there was no money to keep single engine types. VVS lost reconnaissance/strike capability when Su-17 were retired. Many of the retired aircraft were not that old.
It was stupid, of course they had huge surplus of both airframes and types, but it was wasteful to keep so many Su-24’s around when a cheaper type could have performed much of the jobs. They should have kept either MiG-27 or Su-17, preferably latter.
Diesels bulky but economical. Gas turbines compact and good acceleration but not very fuel-efficient. Steam turbines something in-between but very maintenance-intensive which is why they went out of style except in nuclear propulsion.
Electric transmission is bulky but reliable and makes handling the ship easier than mechanical gearing. As tonnage makes less up in ships’ cost these days, size constraints seem to have become less meaningful.
Great photo, very sharp looking!
Kinda weird seeing air refueling probe in MiG-23. This was a modification for some Arab air forces, no?
Sure but having both typically comes at a cost, hence there is always a sacrifice.
Of course there is. Usually what you have to sacrifice to gain speed is range. When you have certain range/payload requirement for a given airframe size & weight, you have to sacrifice some speed. They could have easily made F-35 supercruising and it would not have costed any more than it currently does, but it would not have flown as far.
Actually the history of fighter combat aviation shows that situation awareness plays a far more significant role in determining an engagement than velocity.
But it’s better to have both, and here’s the kicker: you don’t have to sacrifice one to gain other.
Still I don’t get it.
Is such ability something that was actively sought i.e. there is a precise requirement for it or its just something that was found during the trials and added to the database.
There were several planes able to fly supersonic in military mode (Mirage III, Bac Lighting etc) but it was never considered something relevant as it happened just in clean mode and at an high quote.
Fact is that planes usually are optimized for operating at an higly subsonic or, in very limited cases, into a supersonic cruise mode.
But that is exactly the point. The fact that most combat aircraft are optimized for that (which is understandable, given requirements and technology limitations) means that those who offer meaningful performance increase over that level do have a real-life advantage.
Yes, even in the ’60s you could go supersonic on mil power if that was all you wanted (first Draken prototype broke sound barrier without afterburner, on a climb) but when you loaded up weapons, fuel and avionics even attempting it usually wasn’t practical. However nowadays there are technical means to do it while carrying useful warload and some planes have been designed to take advantage of it. I’m sure they wouldn’t have bothered if it was judged completely useless.
Now 1,2 mach is instead just above transonic velocity, with all related turbulences: to get there F-35 would in every case need to use AB and also when it reach such a velocity it would still operate in a not optimal regime.
So, I repeat again what is, operatively speaking, the rationale of it?
The rationale to be faster is to be faster. When you’re faster, you dictate the terms of the engagement: you can force an engagement on your terms, and disengage again on your terms. It is a very basic parameter of warplane performance.
Do they still have Mirage F.1’s with flight hours left?
What about Super Etendards?
Question about F-35 supercruise is IMHO one of such ones in which there is a divide between sought of a given performance just to appease customer and its practical utility.
What is the tactical advantage that F-35 would achieve supercruising at 1.2 for roughtly 120km wasting an huge quantity of fuel instead of a normal higly subsonic one + a supersonic dash when needed?It is not the F-22 that would reach throught it a speed superior to the maximum one many fighters have at full AB.
Neither is the MiG-31 that, although not having it, still goes farther and faster with AB on on than the same Raptor supercruising.
Below certain speed and certain range the capacity of remaining supersonic without using AB (above all if you still need it to get there) is just something that just look fancy on brochures (and discussion forums).
That is a very narrow view. Not every potential customers has same practical requirements. It is understandable that USA needs F-35 to be a major strike asset and as such, sacrifices some supersonic performance for range & payload. But not all air forces have similar priorities.
Really now, do you know speed difference between Mach .95 and Mach 1.2 at 30,000 feet? You really think that makes a huge impact on survivability? Please.
Yes, when you think about terms of intercept geometry – where you will be in X amount of time, and how long it takes to get out, ie. escape from potential enemy retaliation – being 30% faster makes a pretty big difference.
Also, Mach 0.95 is a very bad speed to cruise, near max transsonic drag.
Wasn’t it originally planned to have all-new planar array design for MiG-29/Su-27, but it failed and they had to settle for scaled up Sapfir (MiG-23 radar)? In the end they pretty much skipped planar arrays completely.
Strange that the UK should find it suitable for Typhoon and the F35 though.
Nothing strange about it. It’s a legacy platform, like T-38, suboptimal but still useable. However, the Hawk is passé and I doubt any major air force is going to select it anymore as a lead-in fighter trainer.
So is Ocean replacement really off the cards? Such a ship doesn’t cost much, less than a frigate, surely RN is not that cash-strapped after carriers are done? RAF gives up 4 Eurofighters and you’re pretty much set.
Could be. The main point, on which we clearly agree, is that our future amphibious fleet has a flaw in its helicopter support provision.
We built an amphibious fleet most of which lacks the ability to support helicopters for more than lily pad operations, & relied upon there being separate helicopter support platforms – Ocean & the Invincibles, dividing the roles of helicopter & fast jet platforms between them. That looked workable to me, but now we’re moving to having just two helicopter & fast jet ships, leaving the very real prospect of a single ship having to do both at once.
Nobody would plan it like that if they were starting from scratch, would they?
But it was planned like that from the start, no? Wasn’t Ocean purposedfully designed a short-lived vessel to save money, and 2-carrier plan to replace Invicibles dates back to ’90s as well.