“Clear etch prime?
Cellulose laquer (what people often just call *laquer*) certainly doesn’t etch so what product is clear & etchs?”
not a cellulose laquer. cellulose is frowned upon in the UK now, its nasty stuff. A pigmentless acid etch primer. You can get it at any car paint specialists in the UK. It’s used to provide a base for such vehicles as bare aluminium panel land Rovers etc. It’s simply a metal etch primer with no pigment in it. ever seen a bare aluminium Audi A8 or a6 is it? the aluminium panels are etched with clear, then covered over with acrylic laquer layers, to bring the shine back. its clever stuff.
Hi peter, thanks for posting the pics. from what I can see, here’s my 2 peneth. Im assuming that like many, you don’t have access to blasting kit, or the finances for deoxidine, allochrome, alodine etc, bead media etc. We deal with plenty of corossion like that at GAM. quite frankly much of the time we just cannot be bothered with the hassle of getting out all the blasting kit etc. 9-10 times for these types of corrosion, we remove 99% of it with mechanical means, such as emery paper, scotch bright, flap wheels etc, being careful to only remove the corrosion and not surrounding material, where we can. What is then importatnt is effective chemical treatment to kill what is left. Generally for the materials and corrosion issues you have posted, any phosphoric based solution applied for 20-30 minutes (40-50% solution) will dissolve stuborn corrosion on aluminium, and prepare the surface, after you have removed most of it manually. some times you may need to do it twice. the books will tell you NEVER EVER user phosphoric solutions on Magnesium based parts. Well you can take that with a pinch of salt. We treat Mag parts often with phosphoric based methods. So long as you thoroughly wash off the solution afterward, there really is no problem at all. blasting won’t always remove the corrosion in deeply pitted areas, magnesium parts being a prime example, and chemical is then the only way to get at it. As for the solutions, if you can afford it, then Deoxidine is very effective, if you can’t afford it, then plain old phosphoric acid, diluted to 40-50% will suffice, thoroughly washed off afterwards. quite often many of the auto shop rust curers have 20-30% phosphoric acid in them, and will suffice, all be it requiring 4-5 applications, because they are not strong enough. for flaky corrosion, you have no choice but to remove it all until you are back to clean metal, then the normal methods apply.
if you can get allodine or allochrome 1200 to prepare the surface before painting great. otherwise a good quality etch prime and top coat will suffice. if you don’t want to paint it, coat it in acf 50. if you cant afford that, good old wd40 mixed with clear wax oil, will suffice for parts on display inside. dinditrol clear cavity wax is also very efective, available from classic car dealers. if the surface is clad, often you will have no choice but to remove the clad, to get rid of the unsightly corrosion. the problem you then have is that the panel underneath will rot fast, normally because they have a high copper content. in this situation a coat of clear etch prime (like laquer) will protect it, or allochrome, if you dont care about it being yellow afterwards.
No doubt I will get flamed for this advise, but, I am walking the walk on a variety of old millitary aircraft regularly, and I am being realistic about what you have access to, with regards to time, manpower, materials, tools and money. Ask any of the brunty lads for Vixen, bucc, lightning etc and I guarantee you, that the above methods are used all the time effectively, on a budget. We don’t all have access to funds like Duxford, Hendon etc for fancy blasting cabinets, gallons of deoxidine, allochrome, acf50, paints etc. whilst I agree with much of the advise about blasting, it’s inconvenient, expensive, hassle, and beyond the scope of most poorly funded projects. The above methods do work too.
if you have access to the cabinets etc, then great!
plenty of advise without even seeing what Peter is dealing with:rolleyes:!!!. Peter post some pictures if you can, of what you are trying to treat.
What do you need to know David?
For an aircraft that will live outdoors, with minimal maintenance, Gloss paint has to be essential. It doesnt look ‘right’, but it should keep it in decent shape for longer than Matt would.
Bruce
exactly. whilst it it looks odd, the 2 pac finish lasts years, and will greatly reduce the amount of attention required to maintain the satin/semi matt finish it flew with. thats more important than the accuracy of the scheme, when you have to look after the airframe outside.
the mod allowing 770 to be there is surely amazing support in the first place, especially when most stations are having a hard time keeping any air frames/gate guards on site.
any plans to get the services hydraulics or maybe basic 28volts hooked back up in future?, be nice to see some life in the old girl eh.
Yep, she was and still is a suprisingly dry Lightning :rolleyes:
🙂
:eek:now YOU should know better than to tempt fate like that mate:p
just saudi wings I think. if you look closely at the pictures, you can see the sheet of aluminium on the forward starboard side covering the hole made by the JCB on 897’s original fuselage.
it’s these sorts of whingers (whom when not writing into bbc “points of view”, or writing to their local mp about the price of fish), that help to ensure the fun police get to wag their pace sticks, at anything even remotely more interesting than Beige wallpaper.
god,talk about moan about the price of fish! for goodness sakes, what nimby mentality!!. How could renault taking an F1 car to Duxford be anything other than great. If I had seen the numpties at the front desk complaining, I’d have told them to get a life.pathetic
I hope he didnt bet his dinner money on that nash:D
Excellent detailed update MJR, are there any plans to restore the full Suadi markings, rather than the temporay UK marks she has now?
thanks pagen. it will be displayed as ZF579 RAF, port side, and 53-671 RSAF the Starboard side, that way we can celebrate her Saudi service, but also her Warton heritage:), plus it saves money, because those Saudi decals are a pain i the butt to get made as it is:p plus “danger keep clear of intake when engine is running” in Saudi Arabian, doesn’t mean much to your average English yobo, when the engine is running:D, hence we need some British markings too!
We also dont want those umarked (non serial numbered) American diplomatic Scarebus pilots taking off from gatwick, and panicking when they look down and see the canopy open and taxi lights on.. imagine it “Jeeeees, that Mig down there is covered in A’rab writing, with missiles on it”, a ton of chaff later!:p
Amen to that Andy, its all about fun. yeaaah!:D
interesting indeed 🙂
Just out of interest
Which would be the candidates out of your 2/3 aircraft? 😀 (so i know which to buy in 10 years time :p)
hmm sorry folks I got my facts wrong on that, as me ol’ Andy (320psi) has pointed out on another thread. so it looks like ZF579, XS458 in the UK. That’s the lot:eek::eek: that is very sobering indeed!! hmmm best treat the old heap with kid gloves from now on then;) no more fighter pilot games in the cokpit! or swearing at her anymore:D
Joe Petroni makes an excellent post indeed. If anyone thinks the CAA are bad news, just wait until(if it happens) EASA get full control. then you will be begging CAA for forgiveness!!
I baught my euro ticket yesterday:D
that rumour about Rolls is a rumour, total tosh.:)
cheers Andy, knew they had a “little” left, but didn’t trealise they were flown to the last hour!:eek:. yeah knew about 728’s stress panel, no big deal though, that could be re-skinned quite easily. did 904 get the 600hour mod to the wing then too? bummer, looks like all eyes are on 579 then, so before you all ask. NO NO NO, we are not even entertaining it!!!:D:D:D:D unless someone wants to donate about 20 million quid??? perhaps that spanish fella who won 111mill on the euro lottery might help:diablo:
Hi finch. shes not the only one. Xs458, XS925, Zf593 (though in the states now) XR724?, XS904? would all be candidates too.I think the last 2 have some FI left??
yes she could be potentially returned to flight. She would need millions spending on her for the UK so no chance over here, but, yes there is more than enough FI left on her, and another 3000 hours life remaining. we have only used ex saudi parts on her 1) because that is the F53 fit, and 2) because all of the Saudi stock we have, has paperwork and no more than 50% used life, hence all the components would be suitable for OEM overhaul in the uk. for instance the n01 jet pipe has 19 hours on it!:eek:
Though the engines are new, they would still have to be certified for uk use, and that is a problem in the UK, so yes SA or USA would be the sensible option. She has a few of correctable show stoppers at present. 1) both port and starboard stress panels ideally would need to be replaced, 2) port and starboard wing magnesium castings need replacing.3)small section starboard top wing skin has a similar issue that XH558 had, and would need to be fixed. All sortable though.