I see no reason it couldn’t be done. However, the cash investment required to achieve it would be insane!, prohibitive

Let’s look at it::rolleyes:

Everything required to go flying, is mainly available. The obstacles are not insurmountable, but cash is imo. where does this misconception that CAA won’t allow Lightnings to fly, come from?!.:confused:

the CAA were engaged quite recently, they were most helpful(shock horror!) same applies now, as it did 15 years ago. CAA WILL allow a Lightning to fly in the UK, but with Design Authority backing. Marshalls or Bae. (Bae? forget it, but are prepared to hand over Authority to Marshalls) Marshalls will take on, if you have the dosh. There are one or two big stumbling blocks. 1) a lack of spare “zero houred” engines with paper work. 2) no OEM for engine and pipe overhauls.

All lifed assets are still around and reasonably plentyfull, mainly from Ex Saudi stock, (all be it spread between 2-3 groups, and mainly used) but, with original paperwork, the OEM’s can rebuild and re-certify anything you want. simply a cash issue.Dowty, Plessey, Lucas, Dunlop etc, still exist in some guise.

pipes, pumps, reheat pipes, gearboxes, flying surfaces etc, are all available used, dry stored, with log cards, from ex Saudi stock. Of that stock, circa 60% is suitable for OEM overhaul. The paperwork exists for most of the preserved Ex Saudi airframes in the uk, and the parts that were or still are fitted to them. majority of the parts are well within lifed hours, suitable for overhaul. much of it has already been recovered.

airframes?. I think there are only maybe 2-3 candidates? with FI/hours left, in suitably “reasonable” nick.

It would require a pooling of effort between Lightning groups, museums, and owners of ex Saudi frames, to pull the remaining stock together, and a formula 1 budget.

You would need a firm to certify Avon 302’s, and reheat units, ratified by the CAA. Rolls Royce no longer certify Avon aero engines or pipes. what to do? hmm

simply due to intergalactic costs that make 8 million look like pocket change! is a good enough reason for it not to happen.:(

Matt,, I have your plug in my hand right now. second hand, but the one you need. i’ll mail ya 😉

Actually as P in post 2 said you could preselect gear up on the ground

not on the Lightning you can’t. You can overide the gear selector switch, by pushing a pin in with a screw driver, but the gear will then retract as soon as you have hydraulic pressure on engine start up. Frightnings have a pressure speed switch in the nose gear bay that physically locks the gear selector out until you reach about 180Knts. once you exceed 220ish knts the gear goes up on its own.

a rumour chaps. It was an aesthetic tart up of a an airframe 53-418 for display at Kuwait city museum. There was an aiframe that recieved a lot of attention in Saudi a couple of years back for display in a museum too. It received lots of new parts from the Saudi parts bin, but was never considered for ground running. The last mint airframe did remain in a hangar at Riyadh storage I believe until 1992-93, when it was pulled out and dismantled to be transported. I think it now resides at King Faisal air base in Tabuk.

The last 2 potentially runable 53’s were destroyed in Gulf 1 by the yanks from the air. they thaught they were migs:p they also destroyed the last nice condition complete kuwaiti t55 in gulf 2, after bombing it and then troops lobbed a grenade into the cockpit, to finish it off. Again, they thaught it was a mig. This one didn’t die in vein though, as it gave up a few parts for a restoration on our side of the pond:)

converting the 302’s to electric start isn’t that bad really, fairly straight forward. Comet starters can bolt straight onto IPN starter mating surfaces, which takes care of the mating issue. all the engine control, LP, HF and avpin circuits can simply be de-fused. a small mod to the the High energy circuits can be done to de-couple them from the engine control automated sequence, for manual starts. As Andy says, for amateur groups its a show stopper, since the starters are circa 3-4k each, You are then looking at another 1-2k for the 120volt trolley required to run them. In terms of complexity, it’s straight forward, just not worth the cost. I believe it was trialed in the early days at Boscombe, but IPN won out for QRA duties. We looked at for ZF579, and 7-8k lay out, just wasn’t worth the hassle.

interesting, sensible good points on this thread. I have been generally aware of 558’s plight. I never doubted that it would fly, but like most, was always curious as to how on earth it would be sustainable. One thing that seems clear to me is that there has been an incredible amount of “negative press” and “poor image” issues.

I think they have done huge damage to any chance of corporate sponsorship, because of the management style and appearance of “amateur shoe string” around the fund raising and press efforts. The recent museum visits, a prime example. Cudos to the ordinary chaps and chapesses that came up with the idea, but honestly, to me, it harked of amateurishness through and through. I am not attacking the sentiment and hard work, but a PR Guru would have polished that rough stone up.

point is, you dont need to be loaded necessarily, to give the impression of being polished. Many amateur ground running groups, pull it off. Yet the Vulcan lot, with all their lottery money and dedicated staff couldn’t?. It’s surely a question of PR. Clearly the Vulcan PR guys are not good.

Guys like Branson don’t get where they are, by giving money away. There has to be a commercial return to the investment. A case in point would be John Caldwell? and Thunder city. Thunder city have behaved impecably, presenting themselves as a very polished and proffesional outfit from day one (even when they had little money), with a thoroughly researched business plan and understanding of what they could offer to sponsors long term.They handled their publicity carefuly, and as such have a great reputation, that corporates want to be associated with. Imperative to attract a big sponsor. Key issue however, Thunder city air frames earn money from various avenues.

Conversly, The Vulcan to my mind 1) seems to offer zero return for investment at all? why? Im not sure. 2) has a shocking reputation (whether accurate or not) for being a “shoe string operation” on the brink of failure from day one. Stumbling around in the dark. You have to ask if a dedicated proffesional PR Guru (as expensive as one may have been) from day one, would have made a big difference??. Is it any wonder no corporate sponsor is coming forward, with such a poor image?

Personaly I think getting HLF involved was a mistake. It closed doors to the project, by scaring away corporate sponsors perhaps?

So the pan is no longer being cleared then?