2030 is an hypothesis date, caused merely by the RN expecting the F35 squadrons to go online very, very slowly. It is not a fault of the ships, nor a damage caused by the switch to CATOBAR, but merely a matter of not buying, or buying too slowly, the frigging airplanes.
The bit about the carriers offering less military capability is bollock.
It depends on many things: how many crews and airplanes will be effectively there to embark, and if the conversion of the second vessel is at the end funded or not.
The ship and plane combination, after the switch, is by far the most powerful one.
If the government messes up everything, it is no CVF or industry’s fault.
“Better to spend the money on buying a couple of extra F35 to fly of it.”
Absolutely agree.
What would you like to see as sensors that would be substantialy more power hungary then those slated to be installed? At full speed CVF still has @36mw for sensors and hotel functions.
I should not answer in his place, but i can guess that he was thinking of SAMPSON, and perhaps of Aster missiles.
A dream that never quite died in a lot of people.
It is not just to cover the “carrier” role.
HMS Ocean is to bow out without replacement, with LPH(R) being effectively a dead programme.
Unless the LPH requirement is cancelled and the Marines landing force further reduced from 1800 to 1400 at the very most, if not even less, the MOD will have to:
– Let the Navy operate both CVFs, which, if both fitted with catapults, could ensure that a “LHA” is available at any time and, now and then, a carrier + LPH are both available for ops; or
– Let the navy use both carriers but keep QE without catapults, leaving both roles not entirely covered; or
– Procure a new LPH solution and mothball/sell QE.
29.000 is, anyway, an anticipated 2020 manning level appearing, as “assumption” inside the SDSR document, on page 32. For now, the RN knows that it will go down to 30.000 by 2015, and it is the review in 2015 which decides the fate of QE and of the RN manpower and structure.
The 2020 assumptions on that page are of no relevance at all. For example, they also “assumed” the Army would be 94.000 strong, and barely a few months later they announced it will actually be brought down to 82.000.
Even so, good of the FSL to campaign actively already now. He must use all his weight in this battle.
If i can shamelessly link to my own blog, here is where i summed up the latest news and figures available about Harrier, F35B, C and EMALS/CVF:
http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.com/2011/11/end-of-era-start-or-another.html
http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogs…s-ordered.html
dont know about this guy though
Oh, 90inFIRST, you know me quite well by now. Thank you for using my blog as a source of info, too. It is always a pleasure to see. 🙂
What’s important is that it was nothing serious, and it caused no injures and no serious damage. We can’t afford damages, nor connected delays with the absurd number of carrier-haters out there who like to tell people how the solution to all of the UK’s problems is to scrap carriers…
the for’ad island location has meant that the second CAT is located to the left of the flight deck instead of being located at the bow ‘alongside’ the first CAT.
The forward island is absolutely irrelevant for the positioning of the second catapult, as it would have been positioned there nonetheless.
There is nothing wrong to the second cat being there. Remember Ark Royal IV? It had the very same arrangement.
“An F35B purchase would be way too embarassing for the current government to consider.”
Moreover, setting up two separate fleets, two training courses, two spare-parts reserves and everything would increase costs.
All the money that can be found and spared, must be used to buy an as large as possible fleet of F35Cs.
The more of them with naval colors and in naval formations, the better.
“Well I don’t think any of us are in doubt that Prince of Wales will get the first catapult set”
Not to be rude, but since i was the one saying it all along since months ago and was pretty much insulted and accused of having no clue, i can’t agree. Plenty of people here had (and some might still have) the full certainty that QE would be converted, and PoW mothballed.
As to your plan, that’s how it is going to work, pretty much. But if the economic situation improves a bit and the Navy continues to ride the current renaissance of carrier interest following Libya, QE might avoid the mothballing entirely.
Considering that there’s a requirement for ONE Carrier and ONE LPH, and that the first major refit for QE is planned in 2022, QE could serve as LPH even while PoW comes into service, and get her cats and traps during the 2022 refit.
The carriers, anyway, under the new “Carrier Enabled Power Projection” concept are likely to work as Landing Helicopter Aviation ships, US Navy LHA-style. The separation between Strike Carrier and LPH might be a lot thinner in the coming years. And there is scope to operating both.
They are likely to resemble the carrier USS Kitty Hawk in 2001 during Afghan ops: a dozen F35C, some AEW platforms, and the rest helicopters and Marines.
And i’ve nothing at all against that.
I also believe that the conversion could be done in one year or so, not several ones.
“MARS has all but gone”
MARS Fleet Tanker preferred bidder is to be announced early next year. In april or may this year Frazen Nash was selected by the MOD to help with the selection. It is not gone. Thankfully.
It was in this month’s parliamentary written answers.
Plan for the Fleet Tanker element is to have four ships. First one in service by 2016. Contract in 2 + 1 + 1 shape, cost should be somewhere around 540 million pounds, with the hull built abroad and kitted in the UK, probably with the new Rolls Royce RAS kit (5 tons capacity instead of current 2) which was recently acquired to build an ashore RAS training facility.
I suspect that the new tankers will replace also RFA Fort Victoria. Her sister Fort George is gone during the SDSR, and Fort Victoria will go as well: a big oiler with single hull is a no-no, after all.
The 4 MARS FT vessels will then be replacement, numerically like for like, of:
RFA Black Rover
RFA Gold Rover
RFA Orangeleaf
RFA Fort Victoria
MARS Solid Replenisher for replacing the two Fort Solid Replenisher vessels (Fort Austin which is being re-activated now, and RFA Fort Rosalie) should follow in the early 2020s.
MARS Joint Sea Based Logistics, instead, is at serious risk. A pity, because it was a massively interesting concept, and an undoubtedly useful ship type.
In addition, more work will be carried out on the two navies’ aircraft carrier programmes, enabling British aircraft to fly from the Charles de Gaulle and French aircraft to operate from HMS Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales when they enter service towards the decade’s end.
This might be the first “real” hint that both carriers could fly aircrafts come the 2020s. Note that the names of both vessels are specified. First time ever that i see it, normally they would write “Queen Elizabeth class”.
It also is kind of a bold statement considering that (in theory) one of the two vessels is supposed to be mothballed or even sold.
Kind of reassuring.
For the ones who still have doubts:
http://www.theengineer.co.uk/blog/of-cranes-and-catapults/1010711.article
David Downs, ACA Engineering Director:
Away from the massive progress being made with shipbuilding, work is progressing with the programme to convert the second of class HMS Prince of Wales to fit Aircraft Launch and Recovery Equipment (ALRE) for the operation of the F35C fast jet aircraft. The steering group had a very useful trip out to the USA where we visited the Lakehurst facility for a meeting with NAVAIR and General Atomics. We were also able to see an EMALS catapult installed into the runway and adjacent buildings where initial shore based testing of the catapult with aircraft is carried out. The technology and the power and acceleration of the catapult take your breath away, the armature of the electromagnetic catapult accelerating from stationary to 180 knots in just 3 seconds and then being electro-magnetically braked to a stop in just 24 feet.
Read more: http://www.theengineer.co.uk/blog/of-cranes-and-catapults/1010711.article#ixzz1c02zJR5t
Good to finally see updates on the ACA website! But the image on the “Carrier Strike Force” page has been done on the cheap: it is an image of a USN F35C approaching a very US carrier vessel!
http://www.aircraftcarrieralliance.co.uk/the-ships/carrier-strike-force.aspx
Thank you Serge, i try my best with my blog.
I hope so!
http://www.maritimejournal.com/news101/first-qe-class-blocks-joined-at-rosyth
Best picture of the CB03 block lift i’ve found so far.