The cops with guns at Heathrow never bothered me, what surprised me was seeing the Tanks sat on the roundabout.

The tanks years ago were are just a bit of a red herring and PR exercise…simply to reassure the public that “something is being done”…the IRA might have noted the high visibility tanks (not that they could do anything! :-)) and the tanks were gone in a few days after the necesary “bounce” in the papers (saying now we have heighten security!) had been achieved.

Let me inform you then. :))).

Thanks, much appreciated 😉

Yes, I agree there is nothing to apologise for owning a firearm.

It IS legal to own a functioning machine gun (or assault rifle) in the US and hundreds (thousands?) do, however it requires an expensive annual license with mental screening and background checks.
Never heard of a machine gun used in mass shooting.

Didn’t know a machine gun was never used in a mass shooting…

..if you have a hobby and can afford to pay expensive licence fees then it’s not a problem..criminals wouldn’t want to register machine guns or Uzis or whatever they use in gang wars…common thieves robbing a shop, bank or person probably just want to get away with the loot and don’t need to machine gun a lot of people for a few bucks…

Semi-auto rifles (aka “assault weapon”) account for less then 5% of all deaths, probably less then 2.5%. Hand guns by far the majority (50+%?), Shot guns, rifles (aka “long guns”), and then SA rifle as minority. To ban SA rifles wont even put a dent in the death rate. (off hand, I think more died from bombs then SA, but could be wrong).

This is the interesting bit: more than half of murders are by hand guns. (Presumably based on it been a lot easier to conceal a small hand gun than carry around a long-barrelled rifle). So, it would seem the ban here on hand guns was actually apposite and appropriately targetted.

Our “3000 mile” is the reason we need rifles. Parts of USA have huge infestation of wild pigs that are deadly, besides causing destruction. Wild predators still exists. And the spread out nature means for around 70% of residents police are 10 min or longer away.).

Without natural predators animal populations can get out of control and I understand the need for culling in these circumstances to protect crops, water holes, farms etc. Australia has a massive problem with wild camels and horses, not native and introduced by man and they’ve used helicopters to do the culling…though there are concerns about unnecessary suffering and the meat just left to rot.

We do have controls that work, but IMHO do need mandatory education and health checks.

FYI:
I do NOT own a gun, but fired off a variety, even held a machine-gun (MG-15 FYI)
I despise the NRA (and even a lot of NRA members do to, but fear getting their guns confiscated (yes, sad)).

Having controls that work is all well and good. As regards further controls, your suggestions are good but some people are just bad…they simply don’t care to be further educated and sadly no health check will be so comprehensive as to pick up those people who seem ok now, but flip their lids and suddenly lose it (like the sad soldier who lost it and shot up a whole load of peopele) and then go bonkers due to whatever problem they may they have in their life once they’ve got the licence…

It’s ok to own a gun…you shouldn’t feel the need to say you don’t own a gun…it’s not the end of the world! ;- )

Great that you held an MG-15, quite a rare model and of course a predecessor of the legendary MG-42.

I don’t understand the last bit when you say you hate the NRA…and I don’t get why do a lot of NRA members as well!!? What’s that about?

…from what little I know might it be to do with as soon as you say in public anything that might be construed as some/any kind of gun control you are pummelled relentlessly and shot down with overwhelming firepower (not literally of course! ;- )) by the well-funded NRA lobby in a clumsy and heavy-handed attempt to silence anyone who might hold a whiff of a differing viewpoint?

I have neither the time nor the inclination to walk you through all the ways in which the market for top-end military hardware (aircraft, engines, large warships, etc.) fails to correspond to the fantasy world of ECON 101, so I’ll just leave off with this observation: you really think that ‘succeed or perish’ is an accurate characterisation of Lockheed Martin and the F-35 program? There aren’t enough rolleyes on the board.

Exactly! This is the whole point…the massive defence expenditure of the US (more than everyone else put together) has no relationship with the real world.

In the artificial world of defence firms like LM there is an apparent bottomless pit of taxpayers money (even that is not earned through tax revenues but has to be borrowed to further increase the deficit and generations still not born will still be paying the debt….you couldn’t make this up!).

To rub salt in the wound they (the shareholders, board of directors and employees with a vested interest) think they are entitled to as much (of other people’s) money as they can grab because it’s good for them and not necessarily in the national interest.

There you have a perfect example of what is not the perfect allocation of scarce resources as in classical economic theory because it is skewed by the interest of private firms who want maximise their profits…or let’s face it these days just to keep going….to the detriment of the people paying the bills.

Without some oversight and heavy cutting of budgets where everyone has less money and have to make do with less, defence contractors will naturally want to squeeze the max they can (nothing wrong with that).

Regardless as to whether the F35 program ultimately succeeds or not…and LM will say once you thrown good money after bad you can’t bail out now just when we’re ramping up production….and no offence to the people on this forum that work/worked there…you know who you are…we know you have to toe the party line and we all know you have to justify the hand that feeds you…it’s easy to spend other people’s money, especially when you are filling your own boots at the time…that is why there has to be oversight (not by local policitians wanting to get re-elected and e.g. authorising another few tens of C17s) and accountability just make sure millions are spent wisely…otherwise why not just hand the money over to LM/Boeing(or any other defence contractor) and let them spend what they want!! (otherwise don’t you know we’ll have the Russkies or Chinese on our doorstep tomorrow!).

I had the same shock and I agree something has been lost….different times…saw pictures today (sorry in the Daily Mail website!) of the fun fair in Battersea Park now no more…Mevagissey harbour as it was when we went camping in a Morris Minor estate…we’re just getting old and nostalgic!;-)

Having said that the motorcycle chappies with guns in their holsters driving around town are there to send a signal (it won’t make any difference to terrorists…they want to die anyway!) and really I believe they’re there to reassure us in some way that ‘it’s ok we’re here’…the cops driving around in the red cars of the special protection squads are all armed and it does feel surreal when you are queuing to pay for something and the cop in front has a couple of guns in leg holsters…this didn’t happen when I was buying black jacks and fruit salads back then!

Thanks, I get it now…it’s mostly black on black murders….one thing that stood out when I read the detailed numbers was that the US has only one-twentieth of the world’s population but almost half of the world’s guns in circulation…when so guns are so freely available it’s an almost impossible task to control who has access…with the numbers to hand that can only mean many more opportunities for misuse.

…in contrast, guns (in the public) have always been rare here and I remember the shock when I first saw police with machine guns (at Heathrow airport)….now it’s commonplace in central London to see cops with guns everyday just buying stuff at the local shops and petrol (gas) stations….I’m glad there are tight controls here because it means we have one of the lowest rates of gun murders in the world.

Interesting that South American countries have levels of magnitude of gun murder per head much higher than in the US but the sheer size of the US distorts the figures in absolute numbers of gun murders.

The last time I fired a gun in anger (you know what I mean ;- )) was twenty-five years ago in a small shooting club when I was on a trip with a friend who was into shooting as a hobby. There aren’t the opportunities for hunting with guns in Western Europe unlike North America, so we are really talking about shooting clubs, but I believe the recent restrictions on handguns, even if kept securely in clubs, might have been a bit over the top and hurt genuine sportmen….criminals will always have access to illegal weapons…

When I was younger everything was simpler and black and white and now I only know how little I know and how you can’t make glib judgements and extraplolate from one’s own little bubble without knowing all the the ins and outs of another person, place or circumstances without having first hand experience…but then knowing that is some kind of progress I suppose….

You were right and I was wrong

@John Boyle

Just to let you know you were right and I was wrong….

You probably don’t remember this but years ago I was railing against owning guns in the USA and the NRA with you and Scooter (!:D)…sitting in the comfort of a leafy part of London…..what did I know? Now older and (no) wiser and all that ;- ))

With some of the strictest firearms controls in the world (only three UK cops killed by guns in 11 years to 2011), we are very lucky that it’s still rare to see guns used here….usually armed response units only minutes away (less in central London).

What I did not take account of was what happens when the genie’s been let out of the bag, as it has in America with more than 300 million guns loose (more guns than people).

You could be miles from help in a vast continent 3,000 miles across… and while you’d probably not wish to be in position where you had to fire in anger…sadly most murders in the US are overwhelming of poor people by guns…I can now see that a gun might have some deterence value….though my stance has nothing to do with the second amendment right to bear arms or any of the “we the people” scared cows!

The other side of the coin I suppose is not sure if being able to own an AK-47 assault rifle, or have completely unfettered controls so beloved by the NRA lobby, really does contribute in helping to save lives (unless I suppose one of the ‘end time’ chaps need it for the coming apocalypse! ; – ) ).

I am sorry to say it was not wise of me to take a such position until I was (slightly 😉 ) better informed. As you say “there are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two”, but then you already knew that years ago :- )

“Vous n’avez pas le monopole du coeur”

Interesting that the man whose quote this is said the diamonds he received from Bokassa were not really diamonds…”They were not big stones,” he said, ”only something that could be used as a decoration or as jewellery”….just industrial-grade with no value 😀

@nic…do you believe the small “contribution” Sarkozy received helped persuade him to “bury” the evidence in Libya and turn it over to those friendly jihadists and AQ chaps…who ironically are the enemy in Mali :- ) and ironies of ironies the new friends in Syria :- ))

Interesting article today in the Daily Mail (sorry!) about RN pilot, Eric Brown…he holds the world record for carrier landings (2,407) and for the number of different type of planes flown (487), including the Me 163.

Being a fluent german speaker he was asked to interrogate the SS guard Irma Grese “the Beats of Belsen” and described her as “the worst human being I have ever met”.

He would have broken mach 1 before Chuck Yeager in the 1,000 mph Miles M.52, which was cancelled by the new labour government to save money with one of the three protoptypes more than 80% complete.

He’s just written his autobiography “Wings on my sleeve” at the age of 94 and I am sure well worth a read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320463/ROBERT-HARDMAN-Hero-Captain-Eric-Winkle-Brown-makes-Biggles-look-like-wimp-tells-story.html