Well, let me say a few things to your original posting first:
In Russia the percentage of Muslim population is a question of *what* borders the Russians will be able to hold in the future. That is completely open. The 13th-century Moscowitian expansion is sure on the march back, where it will stop, what colony areas will be kept Russian is unknown.

And let’s try to keep political correctness aside, we are not talking about faith here, we are really talking about races and tribes. At least from the European standpoint.

Western Europe situation: That is not God-given (which?). Big business commercial interest and post-WW2 ideology meet for a happy forced integration. Our so-called democracies. And people are still voting fro that system. Happy suicide!

I think you have hit the nail on the head Distiller. It’s not about faith but race in Europe. In Russia, there has always been a significant muslim population but the losers in the new Russia will always have someone to blame as to why they are not successful. By the way, is it true Vladimir Zhirinovsky, leader of the extremist Russian Liberal Democratic party is actually half-Jewish?

It was Anna Politkovskaya, a critic of the Russian government and in particular the war in Chechnya who highlighted the racism at the heart of Putin’s policy in Chechnya. Putin himself is half hearted in his response to the racist murders particularly in Petersburg (his home city and also the home city of one of my friends).

Old habits die hard even in a relatively sophisticated country like the Czech Republic. When I was in Prague a few weeks ago (a truly beautiful city, check out the great Czech restaurant Lvi Dvur next to Prague castle, speciality whole suckling pig, finish with some nice Eiswein, summer orchard in a glass!) there were plenty of armed police outside the old synagogue in Maiselova Street guarding buildings in the old Jewish quarter.

Happy suicide! :p 😀

This radiation has been tracked to moscow… but that proves nothing

Polonium-210 was tracked to one of the three seats occupied on the British Airways Boeing 767 flight from Moscow to London two weeks before these same men met Litvinenko in the Millenium Hotel London. The Millenium Hotel is also a particular “hotspot”. Of course this could be anyone coming from Moscow…but the men were Sergei Lugovoy, a former KGB bodyguard (was a body guard to Russian Prime Minister Yegor Gaidar who recently was vomiting blood in Dublin) and businessman who runs a security company in Moscow, Dmitry Kovtun and Vyacheslav Sokolenko.

The Times of London cite security sources as saying Litvinenko told Scotland Yard detectives that he had arranged a meeting with an old friend, Andrei Lugovoy and was surprised to meet another man, who introduced himself only as Vladimir.

Litvinenko told police officers that he was suspicious of Vladimir because he was careful to disclose nothing about his identity or why he had turned up to what was supposed to be a private get-together.

Vladimir pressed Litvinenko to join him in a cup of tea, but said little during the meeting. Later that day Litvinenko complained of feeling violently ill.

Another “hotspot” is in the nearby Mayfair offices of Putin’s sworn enemy Boris Berezovsky (Litvinenko went there to photocopy the “hitlist” given to him by Mario Scaramella, (sounds like the Bond Villain Scaramanga! :p ) the Italian who had called him out of the blue saying he wanted to bring forward a meeting planned for 10 November to discuss important documents. They met for 35 minutes in Itsu Piccadilly where he told Litvinenko he had received death threats aimed at them both.

Nick Pisa. the first British journalist to interview Scaramella the day the story broke reckons there are gaps in his CV and downright suspicious elements about him that Scaramella was not prepared to clarify (to do with his alleged links to secret services of at least four countries and the alleged shooting at him two years ago by the Camorra).

Nick Pisa has an Southern Italian background himself and he could not recognise a Neapolitian accent in Scaramella (who says he is from Naples) nor the usual hand waving or chatter of the typical South Italian. Intriguingly, he says to him Scaramella’s English was tinged with a Russian accent! 😮 :diablo:

An interesting aside was Scaramella told Pisa he had not eaten (he says he only had a glass of water) at Itsu with Litvinenko because he had had a pizza – in Pizza Hut! Now even I wouldn’t set foot there to have a pizza because their pizzas are crap compared to say Pizza Express :p For a true Neapolitan to set foot there seems odd to say the least (he was no stranger to Britain)! 😀 :dev2:

The media claims that moscow likes to use radioactive poisons but even though I am interested in their history I can’t remember a previous case where a victim was killed with such a poison.

Why use it? The lethal dose is only 1/10 of a microgram. The alpha radiation it gives off can only travel a few centimetres before it is absorbed (it’s just a helium nucleus, a helium atom shorn of its electrons). It can be stopped easily with even tissue paper or a few skin cells and is only deadly if swallowed or inhaled. It would cause havoc to the victim’s insides as damage to chromosomes by alpha radiation is 100 times greater than with other types of radiation. Polonium-210 has a half-life of only 138 days, so has a short shelf life which means it would need to be used soon after being produced. Once swallowed it is very difficult to detect and correctly diagnose.

The quantity of Polonium-210 involved could only have come from a nuclear reactor or particle accelerator (you cannot produce such amounts by Marie Curie’s method of laboriously extracting it from tons of pitchblende (uranium ore)).

A single gram might cost several million dollars as offered by Promekologia (affiliated to a Russian military nuclear laboratory) singled out as an exporter of nuclear materials by a decree of the then President of the Russian Federation, Boris Yeltsin. The US, Russia and China are some of the few countries that could produce this element (in fact it powered the old Soviet Lunar Rover). One might speculate that it was too obvious but perhaps that might be the intention… Naturally the Russian say this is a deliberate attempt to cast a slur on Putin and his former FSB colleagues who now occupy many key positions in the state apparatus.

Seems an awfully messy way to kill someone. Traces of it here, there and everywhere and already three direct links to Russian citizens. Seems almost like leaving a calling card. There are much quieter and less incriminating ways of murdering someone surely?

Well Kev, J Boyle seems to have put it perfectly 😉 :dev2: :

One thing I’ve learned from watching documentaries about the “Mob”…is sometimes they make a very public killing in order to keep people in fear.
The logic seems to be “since you’re going to be suspected anyway, make sure the victim suffers a horrible death to keep your enemies in line”.

Well said Comet – it’s good to see that some people understand the real issues posed by Islam.

It’s not just Islam but ALL religions, be it Christianity, Judaism etc etc that raises questions for any rational person considering scientific evidence why such religions cannot be true! When, for example, they say in the Book of Genesis that the first humans were Adam and Eve (and she came from one of Adam’s ribs!) some few 6,000 years ago in light of the overwhelming fossil and geological evidence to the contrary.

If they really believe the Bible is true then they must believe it’s ok to sell your daughters into slavery as it says in the Book of Exodus! :diablo: 😀 :dev2:

You can’t pick and choose which bits you want to believe and which bits you want to leave to out.

The Book of Leviticus is great because it has so many little gems like if you shave your hair at the sides you can’t approach the Altar of God, so punk rockers with shaven heads can’t go to Church if you really believe the Bible!

Leviticus is a treasure house of laws concerning molten gods ( 😀 ), peace-offerings, scraps of the harvest, fraud, the deaf, blind, elderly, and poor, poisoning the well, hate, sex with slaves ( 😮 ), self harm, shaving (what’s this about!? :p ), prostitution, sabbaths, sorcery (magic 😀 😀 :diablo: :dev2: ), familiars, strangers, and just weights and measure (Leviticus 19)

Leviticus also has the case law lesson of a blasphemer being stoned to death (very nice :p 😀 ), and other instances where the death penalty should apply (Leviticus 24:10-23), including anyone having “a familiar ghost or spirit” (a ghost bejesus!), a child insulting its parents (my dear mum is bonkers and drives me crazy-may god have mercy on my soul! 🙂 ) (Leviticus 20), and a special case for prostitution (burning them alive!!! 😮 😮 ) (Leviticus 21)

So all in all there is a true cornucopia and feast of delight in the Bible for the sadistic and warped amongst us to get their head round!!! Peace and goodwill to all men (and women!) 😀 😀 😀

Such a huge response to this original observation must mean something?.. Politically it will eventually be concluded with ‘many words’ falling short of directly accusing anyone!.. There is too much at risk for it to be any other!… Best wishes ..D.J.

You are correct as all this will be concluded with “many words” and will fall short of directly accusing anyone!

Putin said today in Helsinki that Litvinenko’s death bed letter accusing him of being “barbaric and ruthless” was a forgery faked by the spy’s wife and father.

COBRA, the Cabinet’s emergency security committee met in Downing Street, chaired by John Reid, the Home Secretary, after toxicologists confirmed that the former KGB colonel had a large dose of alpha radiation in his body. They considered the risk to the public after the discovery of radioactive material in a sushi bar and at the Millennium Hotel, where Litvinenko held meetings on November 1. Polonium-210 traces were also found at his family home in Muswell Hill and at two other places today in London: Grosvenor Street, Mayfair, and an office block in Down Street, west London.

According to The Times, the quantity of polonium-210 used could only have been obtained from a nuclear installation, scientific experts said.

The Times quoted “security sources” as saying M15 and M16 are aiding Scotland Yard in the investigation. But as you say, it is highly unlikely that any direct accusations will be made.

My own experience is that there is no link between the personal ethics, morality and virtue of a persons life style and decisions between whether they’re religeous or atheist. I’m not anti-religeous per se (it’s none of my business what others want to believe) but I do hate the way some religeous people have this smug holier than thou attitude that assumes that the mere fact they’re religeous makes them better, more virtuous people than non believers. In my experience many of the most kind, gentle and good people i know have no religeon and many of the biggest POS a-holes I’ve encountered have worn their religeon (of various kinds) on their sleeve like a badge. A good person is a good person whether they’re religeous or not.

Turbinia, you took the words out of my mouth again! 😎

The Anti Russian media thing is getting a bit out of hand really too, It still looks far too messy to be any of the Secret Services of any nation really and seems almost aimed at publicity.

The Ukrainian President was poisoned and almost died; lost his looks and aged many years but he was lucky to survive. We’ll never have direct evidence for FSB involvement (you wouldn’t with highly trained operatives) but the pro-Russian factions in Urkraine were supported by Putin. Put it this way, who had most to gain with his death? Or will the Russians say he poisoned himself to discredit them as they are now unbelievably saying Litvinenko did! :diablo: 😀

The Russians are putting out spin (through paid PR companies and spokesmen in London) saying Litvinenko committed suicide to embarrass Putin! 😮 😀 😀 😀 . He died in excruciating pain, had a young son, [irony on…sorry to spell it out 😮 ] so of course he would chose to top himself in such a painful way [irony off] when he could have chosen many other less painful ways of making the same point! The Russians even said there was no proof his death was not natural! (i.e hair falling out, dramatic ageing etc etc :p ) 😀 😀 😀

In addition, Polonium-210 (“hotspots” now found in at least five different locations in London today including Litvinenko’s last two known meeting places, Itso sushi bar (they do nice lunches) and the Millenium Hotel) is not easily obtainable, normally coming from a nuclear reactor, unless you are Marie Curie and her husband :rolleyes:. Marie Curie took many years to refine several tons of pitchblende (uranium ore), progressively concentrating the radioactive components, and eventually isolating Polonium (named after Marie’s native Poland) and radium. Marie Curie got cancer by the way because of her close proximity to the pitchblende during the purifiying process.

Mr Litvinenko was close to journalist Anna Politkovskaya , who was shot dead last month in Moscow, and said recently he was investigating her murder.

Politkovskaya was an opponent of Putin and especially the war in Chechnya. She exposed a lot of the the state-sponsored terror tactics of our “ally” in the war on terror, such as the use of thermobarbic (fuel-air) bombs against civilians. Another opponent of the Chechan war was General Lebed who negotiated the end of the first Chechan war in 1996 and opposed further war (and was killed in a helicopter crash in 2002).

Litvinenko wrote “Blowing up Russia: Terror from Within”, in which he said that it was FSB agents and not Chechen rebels who carried out the apartment block bombings in 1999, killing more than 300. (Litvinenko’s immediate boss was Putin). However, a climate of fear was created that led to a state of emergency being declared. The killers have never been found.

The moscow apartment attacks helped swing public opinion behind Russia’s second war in Chechenya, when Putin launched a huge Russian military offensive later that year. Yeltsin unexpectedly resigned on New Year’s Eve 1999 and made Putin the acting President. Putin was not the most popular candiate before he pulled away from the other candidates and won the Presidential election in the first round in March 2000 on a wave of populism after the “victories” in Second Chechen war.

Putin’s first act on becoming President was to sign a presidential decree giving Yelstin and his family full immunity from prosecution! 😉 (bit like Gerald Ford did for Nixon when he resigned – see, birds of a feather! :diablo: 😀 ). Shortly before, Yeltsin and his family had been under investigation for money-laundering by the Russian and Swiss authorities (the Swiss homed in on an Amex bill of Yelstin’s daughter Tatyana (now enjoying herself sometimes in London)) and for allegedly taking bribes from the Swiss company Mabetex,that won lucrative Kremlin construction contracts.

Putins enemies sure have a nasty habbit of dying.

General Lebed was killed in a Mi-8 helicopter crash in 2002.

He led negotiations which ended the First Chechen War in 1996 and came third in the 1996 Presidential elections and was a contender to suceed Yelstin.

In 1997, Lebed alleged in an interview with Sixty Minutes that the former Soviet Union had lost some suitcase-sized nuclear weapons.

Both the US and Russia denied Soviet suitcase bombs were placed in various sites in continental America and Europe to be ready by special forces (apparently under KGB control rather than GRU military intelligence).

President Putin said in an interview with Barbara Walters in 2001 said “I don’t really believe this is true. These are just legends…. but there is no documentary confirmation of those developments.” Instead of denying they even existed, I suppose it would have gone against the grain for Putin to say yes ‘we had suitcase bombs already in place ready to blow up cities in America or Europe’.

Putin as the former head of the KGB/FSB would have known what the defector Lunev (a former GRU officer) said about the minature nuclear bombs (similar to an artillery shell in a suitcase): they were called RA-115s (RA-115-01s for submersible weapons) weighed 50-60llbs and lasted for many years wired to an electric source and with a battery backup. If the battery failed, the weapon had a transmitter to send a coded message by satellite or directly to GRU operatives at Russian embassies. Lunev, said the number of “missing” nuclear devices (as per General Lebed) was almost identical to the number of strategic targets upon which those bombs would be used”.