the falls seem quite localised as the face is made up of different materiels, that nearest the cottages/cafe seems to have a lot of soil mixed in with the chalk which i assume is what makes it more prone to collapsing..

Indeed, a bod from National Trust was on local news last week, and he confirmed that local geology makes Birling Gap particularly prone to erosion, as compared to the adjacent cliffs. This winter saw Birling Gap eroded by the same amount as would normally be lost over seven winters, so a fairly substantial loss, and no doubt more will fall as the waves continue to undercut the foot of the cliff over next few months too…

As for standing too close to the edge, being locals we regularly walk along the Seven Sisters and over Seaford Head, and yes, it gives me the w1ll1es to see just how close people get to the edge, even when there are obvious signs of erosion (large cracks in the grass, and “sinking” of the areas of the surface close to the cliff edge etc)…. and it is clear that many visitors to the area have no idea how high the risk of a sudden fall is….or how badly the cliffs have sufferrd this last winter….. and as for the idiots who choose to sit right on the lip with legs dangling over the 90 foot drop….

I am suprised no-one has said the whole of the cliff should be fenced off given the litigious nature of modern society…..personally I’d like to see it left unfenced, and let “natural selection” sort things out :highly_amused:

Could she be thinking of activity at RNAS Gosport perhaps?

Maybe not Spitfires though, but with passage of time I am sure any single engine WW2 type would tend to be at risk of being remembered/described as “Spitfires”?

Paul F

Malcolm,

As David B said, I think you’d be pushed to get to Polk City from downtown Orlando/Kissimmee in 20mins!

As I posted on another forum, I’m not sure it is just the location that makes it less attractive to the many thousands of tourists who pitch up in Orlando/Kissimmee every year. Things may have changed since I visited FoF in 2005 and 2007, but based on my experiences:

“…… It was one of those places that seemed to struggle with it’s “offerring” to visitors – it probably didn’t contain enough family-orientated displays to draw in family groups (at least in 2005/7), but it contained plenty of stuff for aviation enthusiasts who understood what they were looking at, though I found much of the attraction to be not the restored types on show, but the reserve collection – but I suspect most casual visitors would not be particularly excited by a seemingly endess collection of dusty, dismantled, airframes. Most would probably prefer to see/hear airworthy examples of types they know, or half-recognise from old films etc.

The hangar displays also seemed a bit dis-jointed, though in 2007 new hangars were being completed, so maybe that allowed them to display the collection in a more logical/themed manner (e.g. WWI, Interwar civils, WWII fighters, WWII Medium bombers, US Navy types, WWII Heavies etc?) rather than wherever space permitted as seemed the case when I visited.

In 2005/7 there was no coherent flow or ‘thread’, so unless you knew the signficiance of what you were looking at, and/or where it stood chronologically in relation to the other exhibits it probably just felt like a random collection of old aircraft stuck in a few hangars.

Being located mid-way between “Disney Central” (Orlando) and Tampa, probably did/does not help, it is probably too far off the well-beaten Orlando-based tourist track for visitors without their own transport – why try and use public transport to get to a place then have to drag bored young kids around hangars full of old aircraft when the kids would probably rather spend time with that famous Mouse, riding roller coasters at Universal Studios, or getting soaked by Shamu and his friends at Seaworld etc.

Even my wife and (then) teenage kids found little to occupy/amuse them at FoF, and would probably have preferred it if Dad had gone there on his own and just left them around the pool at the holiday villa, or had first dropped them off at one of the main ‘attractions’ in Orando. On both visits I felt obliged to “do” FoF as fast as I could so that we could head back to the bright lights and razmatazz of Orlando/Kissimmee for the rest of the family’s benefit.

The FoF name itself may also have put a few potential “non-enthusiast” visitors off – had it been called “Kermit Weeks’ Aviation Collection and Restoration Center ( )”, or something similar, it may well have drawn in a few more visitors – I suspect most of the tourists who went to Polk City were aviation enthusiasts like myself, who knew all about FoF before they even arrived in Florida on hols. I often wonder how many overseas “passing” tourists somewhere like Duxford draws in (i.e. not those who travel with the prior intent of visiting the place especially to see the American Airforce Museum etc)

Hopefully FoF place will re-open in some form or other – maybe they need to will add a few serious “white knuckle” rides to compete with Disney/Universal and Busch Gardens etc? Maybe open to the public one day a week but then offer half a dozen types in the air would be more attractive – the promise of one “rare aircraft” in action every day, was never really likely to attract anyone other than the ‘aviation nutter’ fraternity.

On a positive note, assuming FoF does re-open in the future, I’d still recommend it as a “must see” stop for enthusiasts, and also especially recommend any opportunity to take a “back lot” or “Restoration workshop” tour. For anyone with an appreciation of aviation history, or an appreciation of what it takes to restore and operate old aircraft, the chance to peek behind the scenes should not be missed. Setting aside the number of “lock up” type-hangars full of shoe-horned in airframes awaiting restoration, and ignoring some of the very rare types they contained, walking into the “engine bay” and seeing (literally) a warehouse full of aero-engines, many “factory fresh” and ready to use, was a moment I will never forget.

In the absence of having to host paying visitors every day, maybe restoration work will move along a little faster? It would be nice to see the former Strathallan/Charles Church Lancaster emerge from those ISO shipping containers and start to take shape once more… or to see another Tigercat and/or SBD returned to flight.

As an aside, and in light of this news about FoF, I wonder how many “passing” tourists somewhere like Duxford draws in per annum (i.e. not including visitors who are in the area with the prior intent of visiting ) ? If it had to operate as a privately-owned/run operation, on a purely commercial basis (i.e. was not run/owned/underwritten by a national museum), I suspect Duxford might struggle to break even/remain open every day too – It often amazes me that YAM continues to survive at Elvington?”

I sincerely hope KW does re-open FoF in some shape or form in the not too distant future, it was a real gem for enthusiasts, even if it was never an attractive alternative to the (nearby) Orlando area theme parks for most holidaymakers.

Paul F

Treat the cause, not the symptoms?

How about charging for emergency “call-outs” in situations where warnings have been posted, whether those warnings were posted by local signage or via local or national media? The emphasis would then be on those taking the risk having to prove they have not seen/heard the warnings if they challenged the charge, but that then goes against the “innocent until proven guilty” mentality…

Rather than treat the symptoms, perhaps society needs to try to treat the cause of the risk-taking….far too many people seem unwilling to take responsibility for their own actions. Why is this?

A lack of common-sense – or a lack of understanding of the risks/dangers involved?

Maybe it’s the thrill of being exposed to danger – the adrenalin rush?

Maybe it’s in hope of capturing that dramatic image or video that will attract the media or social media users and so make them a few quid?

Perhaps they see the TV news and assume that if it’s safe for a news reporter to be there then it’s okay for everyone to be in the same place?

Perhaps if the cause was better understood then the symptoms could be reduced?

I tend to view this type of idiocy as the law of evolution at work – survival of the fittest (for “fit” read “smart”), those smart enough to avoid the danger will probably outlive those that take unaccetable levels of risk :dev2:

But it apalls me when I see emergency services etc feeling obliged to risk their own lives to save the idiotic minority, or watch TV clips of the relatives of the idiots trying to blame others for the accidents that resulted from their relatives’ blatant stupidity.

mmm would have to disagree as the Ridgeway looks down onto Wroughton airfield

My apologies Beachcomber, from memory I thought Wroughton was on the top of the ridge rather than overlooked by it.

It is also a shame that here and elsewhere, the death of one the great leaders of our time is overshadowed by those who want to bicker about the TV coverage.

Derekf,

I have no problem with BBC (and others) leading with the Mandela story, I have great respect for Mandela and all he achieved, but not to the total exclusion of concern of everything else going on in UK, or the rest of the world, last night.

I am sure that a great many people here in UK felt there were other things happening that affected them and their neighbourhoods far more than the death of Nelson Mandela, and that those things warranted “equal billing” at best, or a quick mention at worst…

It was hardly a “slow news” day that left news editors short of other things to cover was it?

Paul F

Nelson Mandella was definitely a saint. Watching the BBC news last night and he made the floods go away.

Yes indeed – forty minutes of news, plus the live feed of Pres Zuma’s broadcast beforehand, and barely a mention of the suffering of various communities on the UK’s East Coast.

Yes I agree Mandela was a true great among men, but I am sorry, for many in UK, I am sure once we’d heard a eulogy from one head of State (i.e. “call me Dave”) we didn’t need to hear much the same words from every other western leader…. we are NOT the 51st or 52nd State of the US, do we really need to hear Obama’s words too, when so many of our own countrymen are watching their homes and possessions being lost to the largest tidal surge in 50 years….?

Sorry, while many in UK admired Mandela, I suspect he had little direct impact on their daily lives, unlike thousands of gallons of cold North sea washing away peoples homes and livelihoods.

BBC News at 10 last night was ittle more than 40mins of “Mandela-Worship”….apalling decision by the editor.

Paul F (“Angry of East Sussex”)

Hi (again) Axel

Depends what you want the shot to be?

As an amateur “snap shot” style record of how low the aircraft was, then the original is fine by me, exposure is good, focus is good, image is sharp, etc.

But, a perfectionist would probably say the “clipped” wingtip can never allow it to be considered a “perfect” shot, and another perfectionist might also say the street-lamp is unattractive foreground “clutter” which should have been avoided. Or maybe if you had positioned the streetlamp towards the bottom left hand corner then it may have looked like a more deliberate inclusion in the composition, rather than “accidental” clutter.

As chip 51 has shown, the lamppost can be removed with digital-processing, but it is then arguable whether the dramatic impact of the airliner’s low altitude is lost? Maybe if the lamp post was removed and “re-inserted” towards bottom left hand corner the image woudl look much better……?

For what it’s worth, I’d prefer the missing wingtip to be there, along with the street lamp, but as a strictly amateur photographer I think it is okay as it stands, as I’d be more than happy to have captured your original image myself.

Paul F