A year or two back I was at a meeting where the speaker mentioned a story he had heard that there are “crated Spitfire(s)” buried under a runway “somewhere far from UK shores” my term PF. The aircraft type may well be open to debate, but would seem a distinct possibility given the location. The location seemed fairly certain (photos of the airfield runway in question were shown IIRC).

I won’t give specific details, or name names, as the person in question was still pursuing the matter and asked that the audience respect the “sensitive” nature of the information.

Another urban legend/tall story? Well maybe, but given the speaker’s proven track record in recovering airframes, if they’re where they’re supposed to be then he will probably find them…of course, given the “legal” wranglings over cases such as the “Swamp Ghost” B17 and a few of the airframes recovered from India, finding such gems would be one thing, actually recovering them to the west for restoration would be another thing all together…..

Paul F

It’s a good job that Greenham Common has deactivated then or they would have got really confused, poor dears. :confused:

Moggy

Moggy, throw in a simultaneous G8 leaders summit at the same time, then they really wouldn’t know which way to turn….

Perhaps that’s the answer? Get the G8 Leaders to discuss a pro-nuclear power and anti-global warming agenda at short notice, preferably in far-off Japan, and leave the protesters to decide what to do…

Do they:

1. Travel to Japan by air to protest (and risk destroying the planet on their way)

2. Stay here and do nothing (but then risk being seen to be condoning G8 advocating use of more nuclear power)

3. Stay here and do nothing (again;) ), and be seen not to be supporting an “anti-GW” meeting.

Oh, so many choices, so many choices…..

Of course, they could always just follow the meeting on their wind/solar powered computers (assuming they can find one that hasn’t been built overseas, or at any cost to the planet’s finite resources).

One assumes the Heathrow protestors haven’t relied on the internet or mobile phones to coordinate the camp and subsequent “direct actions” at all – that would mean they had relied on systems powered (at least in part) by mains electricity – unless the mobile networks and ISPs all use only power generated from 100% renewable resources :diablo: .

Of course, rather than spend time, effort, resources and cash camping out at Heathrow, perhaps they could have donated the cost of their travel to/from the camp to charities helping the millions currently starving in Africa, or those currently trying to recover from the recent flooding in India…but of course, that sort of silent action doesn’t quite have the same glamour about it does it?

Paul F

Stunning photos Jen! I assume you were firmly tied down as it was damned windy up there!

Did anyone get any shots of the BBMF Spitfire doing it’s low passes over the Warren Hill(?) and Beachy Head spectator car parks up near Beachy Head on Saturday? It nearly took the roof of a few cars each time ot flew over as it was in the hold waiting for the BBMF Hurricane to complete it’s slot.

I swear the pilot was doing it deliberately, as he made sure he banked to give photographers up there his best side 😉 Thanks for thinking of those of us who weren’t down on the seafront sir! 🙂

Must try and download my photos and post any of the Spit that came out okay I was almost too stunned by the passes to keep my finger on the shutter button.

Paul F

And hpsauce…

So you’re still paying the same price for fuel as you were 20 years ago? In that case, i don’t think you have to worry about global warming at all, since you’re obviously on a different planet 😀

If you allow for inflation, then prices for fuels are perhaps not going up as quickly as people think they are in real terms – In my corner of UK, petrol is at the £4.30 per gallon figure (for those who work in old money, £0.95 pe rlitre for those that don’t), thinking back to 2000, was it not at a similar level? Isn’t that why the fuel blockades began that summer?

Seven years on, and prices are again approaching £1 per litre (Or £4.50 per gallon:D )and yet seem to be accepted without a murmor. Most people are probably earning more than they were then, so in real terms maybe petrol is actually cheaper now than it was seven years ago! :diablo: Is it any wonder so many of us choose to drive large gas-guzzling four by fours rather than more economical smaller cars?

And what’s my personal stance on GW?

Firmly on the fence! As a scientist by training I’m not convinced it’s as bad as the pseudo-political element (with their own multiple agendas) would have us believe. As was said on one post, GW is all too often the current bandwagon for those seeking to extend their 15mins of fame.

Statistics are all too easily manipulated to give whatever answer you want, and too few people realise this, and so simply accept the numbers put in front of them, whether in a broadsheet or a tabloid, form the left or the right – Orwell wasn’t too far from the truth when he wrote “1984”. Too few of us even think “what’s in it for whomever is presenting this data to us, and is their data a true, uneditted picture anyway?” If it serves someone’s purpose (i.e. to keep them ina job for a few more years) then they’ll convince us that there is a need for their skills and services. We’re all to lazy to challenge what we’re shown, and both sides of the argument play on this – to date the “GW is our biggest challenge” brigade are winning the argument, and so too many of us sit there thinking “they’re the experts so they must be right…”

As an earlier post pointed out, the earth is a finite resource – and there’s an ever growing number of mouths to feed, but we’ve only got ourselves (as intelligent(?) human beings)to blame. Medicine keeps the old and frail alive longer, mass produced food keeps (some of us) well fed for longer, so most of us don’t die/get killed trying to find/grow/catch our food. End result, ever more people on the planet, each of whom we (rightly) expect should be kept fed, clothed, housed as they too are human beings. And to keep eahc of us fed and housed means we consume another tiny slice of the finite resource our home planet offers.

As has been said, lets go nuclear and reduce our reliance on fossil fuels until, or unless “renewable” resources improve. I don’t think there is any other way – what we need to do is work out the best way to maximise the life of our finite resources – and use of nuclear power does make sense, even though the waste products are a tad difficult to deal with.

One thought to ponder however – from my days as a science student, I remember that energy is never created nor destroyed, it is merely changed in its form (so says the basic laws of physics IIRC?), so if we extract energy from anything, including the wind, or waves, then the source must eventually become exhausted as an energy source. Eventually, we will have extracted so much energy from both that we have flat calm days, with no wind and no waves…which will deplete our weather patterns of their energy. Of course, it will take years ofr this to happen, but it will happen eventually…

Of course, the sun is going to keep generating and “topping up” our earthly weather patterns, due to it’s energy output. But, eventually, even the sun’s (seemingly infinite) chemical/nuclear energy resources will be exhausted, and it’s going to get very dark, and very cold on this litle lump of rock 🙁 .

It’s inevitable that it’s going to happen at some stage, so why fret about when it’ll happen, so perhaps we should all eat drink and be merry (for tomorrow we (ALL) die) :diablo: . There is no such thing as a truly 100% renewable energy resource, as we cannot create energy from nothing – the sooner everyone realises this the better for all concerned.

And on that happy note I’ll leave…..as I go, I’ll try to reduce my wanton consumption of non-renewable resources, but I won’t try and force my views on everybody by disrupting their travel plans… I’ll still jump in my petrol driven car every day, and I’ll burn electricity and gas to heat and light my home, and to help me enjoy my leisure time.

So will I take direct action against BAA or any other person making a lawful living, largely to establish/maintain my credibility/popularity/fame? No.

Will I listen to my conscience more often? Maybe…. do I need to replace my ten year old FM radio with a new fangled DAB set – no, not until the governmnt force me by switching off FM radio. Do I need to replace my CD-walkman with a white trendy digital tune player – no, not until it breaks down. Likewise, I don’t need to replace my ten yera old black-cased TV with a new larger, brighter, louder, Plasma or LCD, HD version (in silver) until the Government shut down the analogue signal (unless it packs up first of course). Will I replace my three year old gas guzzler MPV with a new “greener” hybrid car (even though it would come with this year’s trendy new number plate)- No, not until it’s beyond economical repair. Will I still fly abroad – probably, but probably only once a year for a holiday, and not every few weeks just because a few of the lads fancy necking a few dozen beers in a foreign city for a laugh.

Maybe the “green-brigade” have made me stop and think about some of my choices more than I did ten years ago. That’s no bad thing. But have they conviced me that I’m a bad person for not living in a totally eco-friendly, carbon neutral manner, No, because I don’t believe it is truly possible to do so, and I think anyone who does is deluding themselves.

As I said – Global Warming? I’m not convinced its as bad, or as inevitable as we’re told, but that’s no excuse for complacency either.

Paul F

I am not a pilot, so many on here will probably say I have no right to comment, but I have done a number of studies into “system’s failures” (in their broadest sense) both as part of my qualifications, and as part of my everyday job, so here’s my thoughts for what they are worth.

For a very inexperienced pilot (i.e. second solo), the unexpected pressure of having to understand and then act on what appears to be a “non standard” ATC instruction during finals, plus worry about the implied warnings that a faster aircraft is somewhere behind you would probably be more enough to occupy one’s mind, let alone having to work out what was likely to happen next, work out how to reconfigure the aircraft in an unusual situation, wonder what was likely to be ATC’s next instruction, try and remain on top of the map reading etc was clearly very high.

Don’t overlook the fact that he had already been given, and reacted to, “unusual” instructions during his take-off line-up phase, and that ATC had also apparently given then changed their instructions to him once the possible conflict on finals was noted. So, the inexperienced pilot had already had to deal with two sets of “non familiar” circumstances on only his second solo, and was then having to deal with a third set – out of the normal circuit pattern, heading on an unusual heading over a familiar yet somehow unfamiliar landscape, in an aircraft set up for finals, although he was now obviously being instructed to abandon the approach and somehow rejoin the circuit from an unfamiliar location/height/heading. All the time perhaps with the nagging doubt that something faster, and possibly much larger, was approaching him from behind.

I suspect many inexperienced people in this, or any similar, set of circumstances would be at very high risk of overlooking something, whether it be the need to reconfigure the aircraft, the need to seek further instruction, or the need to plan ahead for a possible rejoin. Given time, I imagine all these points would have come to him, and have been resolved, as he seems to have been a competent young man. Unfortunately, there was no way the situation could be “stopped” to give him time to catch up with everything, and an accident resulted. A very sad set of circumstances, any single one of which might have been easily resolved/overcome, but added together the cumulative effect was disasterous.

As has been said by Propstrike, hindsight is wonderful, the situation becomes easy to follow, and cause and possible effects are easy to understand. But, at the time, no-one involved had the ability to “freeze” the situation and analyse all likely outcomes before making further decisions.

Let’s hope suitable lessons are learnt such that the young man didn’t die in vain, and thus that the chances of a similar set of circumstances being repeated are reduced.

RIP Sam Cross

Paul F

Its seems there is some controversy surrounding the runway.

It has recently been re-tarmaced, but has not yet recieved grooving. Grooves etched into the runway surface allow water to drain quicker and assist in the braking action of aircraft.

Another flight aquaplaned off of this very runway just a day before this crash.

Heads are going to roll.

IF (and it’s still very early to be drawing any such conclusions) this was the case, it clearly shows why Bristol Airport was shut down at short notice a few months back, when concerns were raised over the runway there, for similar reasons.

Whatever the eventual cause, it is still a great tragedy for all involved.

Paul F